Another Culture Change

[Koko Ed]

There are many ways people measure excellence in FIRST. To some it is all about the robot and I am impressed with the work and organization of teh "elite teams". they are amazing to watch compete on the field.
But time in and time out the one team that never ceases to amaze me when I am in their presence is team 365 MOE. It amazes me how their presence at a regional takes the place over and affects so many teams. They are always in other teams pits helping teams get their robots ready for the competition. They may not always have the best robot but they are thorough and professional inn every aspect. they are enthusiastic and gracious in victory and defeat ( and I've seen plenty of teams in my travels who do not take defeat well at all. This is one lesson they should truly take from MOE). To me they are the pinnacle of what FIRST should strive to be.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

To me they are the pinnacle of what FIRST should strive to be.

I think the Chairman's Judges agree with you...

[pfreivald]

clap clap
clap clap
clapclapclapclap
GO MOE!

[PayneTrain]

^They are so infectious, other teams did their cheer when MOE won awards at Chesapeake. Top to bottom class act. No disrespect to the 08-10 Chairman's Winners, but MOE is very in sync to the goals of FIRST and will likely become the second team to win two Chairman's Awards.

[David Doerr]

The mentor-built student-built debate reminds me of the struggle I had getting my mind around my change in roles in moving to FRC after coaching FLL. In FLL, coaches are admonished that 'kids do the work'. FIRST clearly spells out the role of a coach in the coach's handbook which says "the team must design and build the robot, not you or any other adult", and in the FLL Core Values which reads "We do the work to find solutions with guidance from our coaches and mentors". Even with those reasonably clear statements there is still an endless debate in FLL over what level of "guidance" a coach should provide.

Reading discussion here on Chief Delphi, the mentor/student relationship seems to be regarded as one of the central foci of FRC. Dave Lavery is quoted as saying that you've missed the point without it. Also, it appears to be a component unique to FRC. But, as a new mentor coming into FRC and looking into the mentor resource materials I found nothing to indicate that the FRC mentor/student relationship is any different than that in FLL or any other similar program.

I do admit I don't see anything in the FRC Mentoring Guide saying that mentors should not design or build part or even all of their team's robot -- "It doesn't say you can't...", to borrow an often-used FIRST phrase.

But...

I don't find it surprising that some -- even many -- are not aware of a special mentor/student relationship that is unique to FRC where mentors do some or a lot of "The Work".

I learned about my role as an FRC mentor by watching and listening to other mentors on my team. Had I talked to mentors from other teams I probably would have a heard different stories about the role of a mentor.

It seems to me that since the FRC mentor/student relationship is special and unique it should be featured and explained prominently in the official mentor resource materials, along with specific examples of how it is implemented by various teams. People shouldn't have to search for a speech made by Dave Lavery that's buried somewhere on Chief Delphi or have to read between the lines in the FRC Mentoring Guide. There should be a FRC Mentor-Student Relationship chapter, or even a book.

Reading about "I Do, You Watch, ... You Do, I Watch" in the mentoring guide leaves me with lots of questions about what exactly should I do and when should I do it. I admit I'm one of those Aspergers-types that often has to be hit over the head with an idea spelled out to me, but it would really help if I could see something official -- even a paragraph -- letting me know if it's OK for a mentor to dirty his/her hands with 50% building, 100% building, a subsystem, the software, or nothing at all. I've had conversations with FRC leaders who I respect who opine on opposite sides of this debate.

Maybe there could be a mentor rule book.

It could be very short with an entry like:
<M0> Anything goes -- you and your team decide

Or:
<M0> Mentors shall keep their hands behind their backs always.

Or a bit longer with entries like:
<M2482> Each student on the electrical team will be responsible for insertion of at least one power wire into the power distribution board. If there are more students than power wires, enough wires will be removed for reconnection so that each student is able to experience the insertion of at least one wire, as long as said wires comply with the rules set forth in the robot manual, and as long as the aforementioned students are of pre-college age. Post high-school age team members should refer to rule <M6855>.



However, unless the rule is <M0>, I think there will always be a debate similar to the one over what level of "guidance" is legal in FLL.


This mentor/student relationship stuff seems to me headline material right up there with Inspiration, It's More Fun To Create A Video Game Than Play One, and Gracious Professionalism. That is why I believe it's important that it be thoroughly and officially explained **and endorsed** in the FIRST mentor resources.

[Steve_Alaniz]

Originally Posted by David Doerr

I learned about my role as an FRC mentor by watching and listening to other mentors on my team. Had I talked to mentors from other teams I probably would have a heard different stories about the role of a mentor.

It seems to me that since the FRC mentor/student relationship is special and unique it should be featured and explained prominently in the official mentor resource materials, along with specific examples of how it is implemented by various teams.
Reading about "I Do, You Watch, ... You Do, I Watch" in the mentoring guide l
<M0> Mentors shall keep their hands behind their backs always.

I've never had a problem with mentors doing a large part of "the work" as you put it. This is allowed within FIRST and FIRST has struggled to keep the competition about the students and not about the robot. There was a time when sons stood by their fathers and watched to learn the trade and to someday take over. The same was true of daughters and mothers though at that time in a domestic role. The point is that they can learn by just watching... then, because they are in their teens, they become curious and want to try it themselves. I sometimes think being a mentor is easy... every brief now and then...
Anyway, case and point... you learned from the mentors by watching and listening to mentors. Same process works with young men and women in their teens....
Teens.... OK.... now I remember why being a mentor is tricky... but its cool.... ( South Park has ruined my life....)

[Carol]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

There are many ways people measure excellence in FIRST. To some it is all about the robot and I am impressed with the work and organization of teh "elite teams". they are amazing to watch compete on the field.
But time in and time out the one team that never ceases to amaze me when I am in their presence is team 365 MOE. It amazes me how their presence at a regional takes the place over and affects so many teams. They are always in other teams pits helping teams get their robots ready for the competition. They may not always have the best robot but they are thorough and professional inn every aspect. they are enthusiastic and gracious in victory and defeat ( and I've seen plenty of teams in my travels who do not take defeat well at all. This is one lesson they should truly take from MOE). To me they are the pinnacle of what FIRST should strive to be.

This type of praise means more to us than complements on our robot (although those are welcome at any time too). The MOE culture is due most of all to our leaders, especially and predominantly Mr MOE himself, John Larock. He is MOE.

[JoeXIII'007]

Great blog JVN, thanks for sharing, and my goodness I am late to this conversation.

First, my hopefully short and concise thoughts on the events you speak of seem more or less reflective of the state of culture in a fair (not all, but a handful) number of places in the US. In my neighborhood and those surrounding it there are attitudes that seem out of place. Heck, in conversation with someone at a company around here this person uttered some things about another country that frankly put a dent in things.

Then there's the state of politics in this country, but we've been there before on CD... (2004 though was frankly heaven compared to what we've seen lately...)

The solution to this mess is best left to social scientists, and I'll leave it at that. That is not to say FIRST should not bother with this problem: a culture of professionalism seems to be a mitigating factor when keeping the nasty stuff out, and the GP concept is a loveable, irreplaceable, forbidden to be removed part of FIRST.

****

Now for some perspective from being on Team 66.

My 4 years on it (2004-2007) were interesting. All of them started the same: kick-off, meeting at the 'war room' the Sunday after to go through the concept design brainstorming process (list possibilities, knock off the unlikely possibilities, end of day: have a rough idea of what we want), the following week refine the design down to specific mechanisms, and then spend the next few weeks building the practice field, learning how to use lathes, drill presses, grinders, etc. etc. etc. while getting briefed on any changes to design that occurred. A few times we got to ride in a little cart to tour select parts of the plant that we worked in, and now that it is closed, I am forever thankful for having that opportunity.

Which leads to perhaps a point to drop here: I have been thinking back occasionally wondering, what was actually more important? learning the skills necessary to build a robot? or learning the thinking process necessary to get there? a process which coincidentally can be applied to a lot of other things with a few minor tweaks.

The former, skills to build X, depend highly upon the availability of resources to get it done, and resources are limited so long as we're stuck here on Earth (thus why measure 2 or more times, cut once, recycle/reuse the rest if possible). The latter, a thought process, depends only on your mind and mine, which lasts pretty much until death, and can be used in a countless number of things (i.e. Data Mining, a personal favorite), including those which have yet to be encountered.

(Repeating that last point was not an accident...)

I digress, back to the main point. So 66 became a powerhouse after 4 years of existence (2002, birth 1998) because we had professionals, who knew their stuff and knew it well, demonstrate their craft. From 2004 on, this was the way things went. It's clearly worked, and in fact has worked so well that even without the mentor resources/other resources once available, 66 has been able to compete strongly this season.

So competitiveness becomes a norm, outreach follows, because there's a stable platform to work out from.

How has this worked? Well, day after kick off this year, I stop by the now 1 year old new nest of the team, and I discover more NXT bricks than ever laying around the room (6?). This is progress from the year I graduated, where we only had one NXT brick and a struggling FLL team (partly my fault for not doing the proper work to set up a decent structure as I was more concerned with the existence of a team... , partly the fault of a lack of resources within the district/will, and time on my end as there was school and dual enrollment).

Also, I heard that there were some 20-30 kids, mostly new ones on the team. I found that out officially this weekend. Greatest thing: it's probably the most diverse in cultural background than the team has ever been. It's _______ beautiful, and humbling, and amazing, and beyond anything I had ever imagined. Now it's just a matter of getting these kids exposed to the methods of design, the thinking involved, the teamwork necessary, and they'll have things that will last their entire lifetime if they take care to use it.

Oh yeah, an actual robotics class... good Lord it came to life. Yes!!!

Obviously, a lot of detail is missing here, and I do not have details to what all he did (beyond finding new sponsors and negotiating with the board of ed.), but the current teacher/mentor of 66 has done an amazing job.

So this should be taken as perspective. I've been in the camp of more student involvement certainly, to the point where I always help out with the other team in town at the annual festival, and as a result have made great friends over the years. We keep in touch.

This all said, there are things from the mentor built end of the world that are worth reading between the lines on, because they're important, more so than often noted. I hope to have successfully hinted on it here.

*puts two steel pennies in the can*