Are all girl FIRST team counterproductive to the philosophy of FIRST?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

2340 was started at an all girls school that closed last year and absorbed by another Catholic School that has both genders but I'm told the school is not to interfere with the team's makeup at the risk of losing a huge donation to the school if they do.

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

Now I'm curious about how 433 is actually run.

[Koko Ed]

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

Now I'm curious about how 433 is actually run.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, if the school asked the team to allow males on it the SCHOOL would lose donations?

Let me just tell you that being told, "I'm sorry but they have money" sucks. I was told that by a school principal once about 15 yrs ago. I was told I was wrong not because I was but because the other group donated money to the school. Do these people have any clue the effect this has on students?

It's a private donation so they can do what they want and the school can choose to honor the agreement or do as they are told. Private schools are often pressed for cash so they are no doubt inclined to respect the doner's wishes.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It's a private donation so they can do what they want and the school can choose to honor the agreement or do as they are told. Private schools are often pressed for cash so they are no doubt inclined to respect the doner's wishes.

I know, my remark was more directed at the donor rather than the school. Makes you wonder what sort of person would want to teach kids that if you have money you can make the rules.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

This topic is not a topic that is cut and dried or black and white. I wish that it were and I wish that it would become so in my lifetime. At the rate we are moving, my lifetime will end and this will still be a topic of discussion that generates controversy.

Controversy can be very healthy and this is.

It's easy to be idealistic and say what's the big deal? Women have to work in the real world, they may as well get used to it by working on teams that include boys/men.

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the team photos and mentor listings/descriptions on their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

This topic is not a topic that is cut and dried or black and white. I wish that it were and I wish that it would become so in my lifetime. At the rate we are moving, my lifetime will end and this will still be a topic of discussion that generates controversy.

Controversy can be very healthy and this is.

It's easy to be idealistic and say what's the big deal? Women have to work in the real world, they may as well get used to it by working on teams that include boys/men.

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the website of their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

Well for one, I can say that a formal student/team captain goes to Harvey Mudd and studies Computer Science. She has started a FRC team this year. Her team won the LA Regionals as a rookie. Her younger brother goes to an all boy school and is on our team. Her father is a mentor for our team too.

[bobosalad]

Lets look at the reasoning for "exclusively girls teams" They are not all bad, in fact, some only have girls who are able to join. Example: in MN, there is an all girl team (except maybe a handful of male mentors at most) because they have an all girls school. Many of the teams in MN only have students from one school including this team. This team has to be all girls because their school is all girls. They seem to do well year to year.

[purpleandplasma]

i like being on a co-ed team jane, but i wouldn't mind having an all girls team either. It sets them apart, and shows that girls CAN do things by themselves! i don't think its fair to start an all girls team at, for example, a school that is co ed, and has no other team, but starting an all girls team, when there is already an existing team wouldn't hurt anyone. I see both sides of the story, and have gone back and forth on this feed, because i feel both ways. For me, the biggest part of being an all girls team would be that you wouldnt have sexist comments from guys. I am a girl driver, and its hard to deal with the comments from the guys, but i proved that i was good, and so they stopped, where as an all girls team wouldnt have those kinds of comments.. it depends on how you look at it, but from being a girl in first, i dont neccisarily agree or disagree

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the website of their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

I'm not an engineer... yet.

My sister started high school wanting to be a Vet. She was on 1675's team her senior year, which was also their rookie year. Between FRC and another adventure she was on, she picked engineering. Now she works for Lockheed Martin with her electrical engineering degree.

I wanted to be a journalist my freshman year, four years later, I can't see myself in anything other than engineering (granted metallurgy sounds pretty cool too). I plan on studying mechanical engineering in college.

FIRST works.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

I'm not an engineer... yet.

My sister started high school wanting to be a Vet. She was on 1675's team her senior year, which was also their rookie year. Between FRC and another adventure she was on, she picked engineering. Now she works for Lockheed Martin with her electrical engineering degree.

I wanted to be a journalist my freshman year, four years later, I can't see myself in anything other than engineering (granted metallurgy sounds pretty cool too). I plan on studying mechanical engineering in college.

FIRST works.

It does but sometimes, students who are inspired in high school by being a part of a team, change majors in college - away from engineering.

Jane

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the team photos and mentor listings/descriptions on their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

This is a very interesting point that is rarely talked about in FIRST. Take a look at this post from 6 years ago by Andy Baker:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=54

Andy makes a list of 43 technical mentors who have had huge impacts on the engineering evolution of FRC. Every single one of them is a male. Why is that? Where are all our female rockstar engineers? Why aren't there female Raul Olivera's or Paul Copioli's? (I know they exist, but not nearly at the proportion that they should) It's an important question I've been pondering for years, but still don't have an answer for.

[mahumnut]

Unless the formation of the team is the result of battling marginalization from a coed team, which very well might be the case for some teams, I find that the formation of these teams are only adding to the overall sense of marginalization within a community and hindering the sense of equality.

This of course excludes cases where a team is formed from an all girls school or any other reasonable exception.

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Karthik

This is a very interesting point that is rarely talked about in FIRST. Take a look at this post from 6 years ago by Andy Baker:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=54

Andy makes a list of 43 technical mentors who have had huge impacts on the engineering evolution of FRC. Every single one of them is a male. Why is that? Where are all our female rockstar engineers? Why aren't there female Raul Olivera's or Paul Copioli's? (I know they exist, but not nearly at the proportion that they should) It's an important question I've been pondering for years, but still don't have an answer for.

I have no idea what a "female rockstar engineer" looks like, but it appears there have been many women who have won WFFA in the last 6 years. Maybe someone can update Andy's list.

I have worked with some women engineers locally who are terrific role models.

They more often are quietly working with teams, going about the business of mentoring in a way that matches what the team needs.

I have also had the pleasure of working with women engineers in the field of "engineering education" including some real rocket scientists.

FRC does not tell teams how they should run their team. So I am a little baffled by all the opinions here. I will try to read over the posts again to see what I am missing. For example, I just read a book about a FRC team where only seniors are allowed on the team...

[Grim Tuesday]

Our team was proud this year to recruit 11 new girls, bringing our total to 13. Yes, we only had two girls carry over from last year, which is to say, we had very few last year (5 out of 40). The team is now 13 out of 50 girls, which while not gender equal, is much closer to the same proportion of girls in tech classes. Though we have had some new...issues this year, it has certainly been a great experience. I couldn't imagine the team without either gender; some of the ladies have taken up very important fields (welding for one...)

In any case, I feel that any team made to exclude any group is bad, and shouldn't be allowed in FIRST, if not officially, it should be frowned upon. If someone founded a team in my school which disallowed girls (or guys) from joining, there would be quite a hullabaloo.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Our team was proud this year to recruit 11 new girls, bringing our total to 13. Yes, we only had two girls carry over from last year, which is to say, we had very few last year (5 out of 40). The team is now 13 out of 50 girls, which while not gender equal, is much closer to the same proportion of girls in tech classes. Though we have had some new...issues this year, it has certainly been a great experience. I couldn't imagine the team without either gender; some of the ladies have taken up very important fields (welding for one...)

In any case, I feel that any team made to exclude any group is bad, and shouldn't be allowed in FIRST, if not officially, it should be frowned upon. If someone founded a team in my school which disallowed girls (or guys) from joining, there would be quite a hullabaloo.

In the last couple of years we have been having a declining enrollment of girls on the team when we usually have had more since I have been on the team (actually it's been rather difficult maintaining the student population period). Usually the best way to attract girls is when they have siblings (The Emerson girls for example) or friends.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

If someone founded a team in my school which disallowed girls (or guys) from joining, there would be quite a hullabaloo.

You don't have girls' basketball, soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, softball, or track?

Jane