Are all girl FIRST team counterproductive to the philosophy of FIRST?

[Koko Ed]

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

Now I'm curious about how 433 is actually run.

So, if I am understanding this correctly, if the school asked the team to allow males on it the SCHOOL would lose donations?

Let me just tell you that being told, "I'm sorry but they have money" sucks. I was told that by a school principal once about 15 yrs ago. I was told I was wrong not because I was but because the other group donated money to the school. Do these people have any clue the effect this has on students?

It's a private donation so they can do what they want and the school can choose to honor the agreement or do as they are told. Private schools are often pressed for cash so they are no doubt inclined to respect the doner's wishes.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It's a private donation so they can do what they want and the school can choose to honor the agreement or do as they are told. Private schools are often pressed for cash so they are no doubt inclined to respect the doner's wishes.

I know, my remark was more directed at the donor rather than the school. Makes you wonder what sort of person would want to teach kids that if you have money you can make the rules.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

This topic is not a topic that is cut and dried or black and white. I wish that it were and I wish that it would become so in my lifetime. At the rate we are moving, my lifetime will end and this will still be a topic of discussion that generates controversy.

Controversy can be very healthy and this is.

It's easy to be idealistic and say what's the big deal? Women have to work in the real world, they may as well get used to it by working on teams that include boys/men.

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the team photos and mentor listings/descriptions on their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

This topic is not a topic that is cut and dried or black and white. I wish that it were and I wish that it would become so in my lifetime. At the rate we are moving, my lifetime will end and this will still be a topic of discussion that generates controversy.

Controversy can be very healthy and this is.

It's easy to be idealistic and say what's the big deal? Women have to work in the real world, they may as well get used to it by working on teams that include boys/men.

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the website of their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

Well for one, I can say that a formal student/team captain goes to Harvey Mudd and studies Computer Science. She has started a FRC team this year. Her team won the LA Regionals as a rookie. Her younger brother goes to an all boy school and is on our team. Her father is a mentor for our team too.

[Katie_UPS]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the website of their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

I welcome posts from the women who are scientists and engineers and who read CD. Share your thoughts.

Jane

I'm not an engineer... yet.

My sister started high school wanting to be a Vet. She was on 1675's team her senior year, which was also their rookie year. Between FRC and another adventure she was on, she picked engineering. Now she works for Lockheed Martin with her electrical engineering degree.

I wanted to be a journalist my freshman year, four years later, I can't see myself in anything other than engineering (granted metallurgy sounds pretty cool too). I plan on studying mechanical engineering in college.

FIRST works.

[purpleandplasma]

i am a girl, and i agree. however, i know from personal experiences that girls have gotten less respect on our team just because we are girls. I have fought for it, and now, after what the 11th week of the season, we are finally treated equal. so i can see the point were they are promoting girls in engineering fields and trying to gain that respect (trust me, starting an all girls team just to get some respect for all the girls on our team has crossed my mind a few times) but it is counter productive as to that first is for everyone

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

I'm not an engineer... yet.

My sister started high school wanting to be a Vet. She was on 1675's team her senior year, which was also their rookie year. Between FRC and another adventure she was on, she picked engineering. Now she works for Lockheed Martin with her electrical engineering degree.

I wanted to be a journalist my freshman year, four years later, I can't see myself in anything other than engineering (granted metallurgy sounds pretty cool too). I plan on studying mechanical engineering in college.

FIRST works.

It does but sometimes, students who are inspired in high school by being a part of a team, change majors in college - away from engineering.

Jane

[bobosalad]

Lets look at the reasoning for "exclusively girls teams" They are not all bad, in fact, some only have girls who are able to join. Example: in MN, there is an all girl team (except maybe a handful of male mentors at most) because they have an all girls school. Many of the teams in MN only have students from one school including this team. This team has to be all girls because their school is all girls. They seem to do well year to year.

[purpleandplasma]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Wait...am I understanding this right? If the team doesn't stay exclusively female students...they lose a sponsor/grant/donation?

Sounds kind of...wrong?

Now I'm curious about how 433 is actually run.

i know for a fact that women of engineering will only support an all girls team, and if a team started up for all girls, had them as a sponsor, then added guys, they would loose that sponsor... which i get, but i think it is unfair

[purpleandplasma]

i like being on a co-ed team jane, but i wouldn't mind having an all girls team either. It sets them apart, and shows that girls CAN do things by themselves! i don't think its fair to start an all girls team at, for example, a school that is co ed, and has no other team, but starting an all girls team, when there is already an existing team wouldn't hurt anyone. I see both sides of the story, and have gone back and forth on this feed, because i feel both ways. For me, the biggest part of being an all girls team would be that you wouldnt have sexist comments from guys. I am a girl driver, and its hard to deal with the comments from the guys, but i proved that i was good, and so they stopped, where as an all girls team wouldnt have those kinds of comments.. it depends on how you look at it, but from being a girl in first, i dont neccisarily agree or disagree

[Foster]

In that other thread are some great posts by the girls on the teams and by Faridodin “Fredi” Lajvardi, co-mentor of team 842.

I am as competitive as the next guy, but I also know and believe that it really isn't about the robots. Its just the gimmick used to get all of us together to celebrate math, science and technology in a venue that has proven to be a successful model, sports.
...
One side note to all this, as a mentor I saw how teams and people treated us differently between being co-ed to all girls.

We have three "all-girl" teams out of our 15 VEX teams. They do a great job and they have a slight edge on the boys teams because they do a better job of listening to each other. One of the teams has a woman mentor, the other two have men. The teams are some of our strongest and they do know their robots. So in this case, it's not counter productive to have all-girls teams.

I agree with Fredi, it's not about the robots, but about the other stuff.

[JaneYoung]

In that thread, which is a valuable read, please also note how long it took for the girls on the team to post their thoughts. When they did, they did so very thoughtfully and very carefully, making sure that we, their readers, understood what they experienced and what their thoughts were regarding that experience.

Jane

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

That's fine and dandy. Look at some of the winning teams' photos that are cropping up in CD and look at the team photos and mentor listings/descriptions on their websites. Where are the technical women mentors on the college level teams and the corporate level teams? Where are the majority of technical mentors that are women on these teams? See any?

Look around in the engineering and science classes in your high school and in your college courses and see how the numbers break down. I've talked with corporate leaders who are well aware of the lack of women in these fields and therefore, cannot hire them - because they don't exist.

How many girls actually go through the FRC program and decide on an engineering major? How many women that had their start in these robotics programs have gone on into fields of math, science, and engineering?

This is a very interesting point that is rarely talked about in FIRST. Take a look at this post from 6 years ago by Andy Baker:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=54

Andy makes a list of 43 technical mentors who have had huge impacts on the engineering evolution of FRC. Every single one of them is a male. Why is that? Where are all our female rockstar engineers? Why aren't there female Raul Olivera's or Paul Copioli's? (I know they exist, but not nearly at the proportion that they should) It's an important question I've been pondering for years, but still don't have an answer for.

[JLenhart]

I personlly do not see an issue with an all girl FIRST Robotics team. If group of girls who share an interest and science and technology want to hang out and be on a robotics team, let them. Having girls interested is fantastic and being able to get thirty or forty girls on the team who enjoy it is great. I was impressed by the Girls Of Steel team at Pittsburgh this year. They were not afraid to get their hands dirty and built an impressive robot also. Some girls just want to hang around other girls. I`m sure these all girl teams wouldn`t say no to helping start another team that allows both genders anyway if one was started and needed help.

[mahumnut]

Unless the formation of the team is the result of battling marginalization from a coed team, which very well might be the case for some teams, I find that the formation of these teams are only adding to the overall sense of marginalization within a community and hindering the sense of equality.

This of course excludes cases where a team is formed from an all girls school or any other reasonable exception.