Is alliance selection usually this bad?

[mwtidd]

After watching SVR and watching the alliance selection, I can't believe how bad some of the alliance selection has been. The fact that 691 wasn't picked at all is mind boggling to me. Maybe its just me, but alliance selection seems horribly unorganized and is costing some teams banners.

On another note I am excited to see if the 2nd alliance can beat the poofs. I think they have a significant chance of pulling it off!

[Grim Tuesday]

No. It is usually #1 picks #2, #3 pick #4 (or another in the top 8), then the rest pick their own alliances. There is usually no, or just one decline. I have never seen teams so unprepared for selection before, either.

Or atleast, thats how it works in my experience.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

No. It is usually #1 picks #2, #3 pick #4 (or another in the top 8), then the rest pick their own alliances. There is usually no, or just one decline. I have never seen teams so unprepared for selection before, either.

Or atleast, thats how it works in my experience.

A huge wild card is the declinations you see this year. I think many of them are well founded as the FIRST ranking is horribly broken for this year. Many people say #s can't be used for alliance selection, but I'm starting to think #s like OPR and ETC(EMC and ERC) are critical to good alliance selection. Scouting doesn't seem to cut it this year.

I think captains need to realize the sum of the parts do no equal the whole, and you need to look at great teams as separate parts (autonomous, robots, and minibots) Try to find value in one or 2 or these areas, not all 3. And try to find a robot who's skills compliment yours. Top 1 or 2 robots score, and the top 2 minibots score. Balancing this through your alliance will produce the highest scoring teams. All-in-one packages don't cut it for picks.

[Cyberphil]

I completely agree. It seemed like every team minus a few was ill-prepared for selecting their own alliance. Even that one team declining the offer to be an alliance captain. I understand that the team might think that they are not worthy of being an alliance captain, but now that I think about it, it was a very GP thing to do. At least they get to compete for at least two more matches.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by lineskier

A huge wild card is the declinations you see this year. I think many of them are well founded as the FIRST ranking is horribly broken for this year. Many people say #s can't be used for alliance selection, but I'm starting to think #s like OPR and ETC(EMC and ERC) are critical to good alliance selection. Scouting doesn't seem to cut it this year.

I don't consider OPR a good measure of robot quality. It is unable to rate defensive robots, and almost all winning alliances have a good defender behind them.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

I don't consider OPR a good measure of robot quality. It is unable to rate defensive robots, and almost all winning alliances have a good defender behind them.

I agree with this. However defense is the exception. You need scouting to find a good defender, not a good offensive team. Where OPR bundles the robot and minibot, separating the 2 creates interesting insights.

[JaneYoung]

When providing local training workshops, this area could be addressed and better understood. It can be very overwhelming to be out on the field having to make selections and not fully understanding the process or being poorly prepared. Many teams have made their scouting information/processes available but teams have to know those are out there and they have to learn the process. Nothing should be assumed in teams, communities, or regions when trying to help the teams become competitive.

Jane

[rsisk]

Wait, what? A team turned down being an alliance captain? How is that possible?

[alectronic]

Yep, when they were asked for their selection, they said "we decline being an alliance captain."
The RD who was doing it immediately said "we are going to take a little break." and went to talk to the ref.
They ended up staying a captain.

[Cyberphil]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Wait, what? A team turned down being an alliance captain? How is that possible?

Yes. The 7th alliance captain, when it was their turn to pick, said that he declined the offer to be the 7th alliance captain. The emcee and the refs talked about it for a little while, but then he changed his mind so there was not a hassle.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

Yes. The 7th alliance captain, when it was their turn to pick, said that he declined the offer to be the 7th alliance captain. The emcee and the refs talked about it for a little while, but then he changed his mind so there was not a hassle.

I think if you decline to be an alliance captain, you cannot be picked later. It a grey area, but I'm assuming they chose to play rather than sacrifice their spot.

[Cyberphil]

Originally Posted by lineskier

I think if you decline to be an alliance captain, you cannot be picked later. It a grey area, but I'm assuming they chose to play rather than sacrifice their spot.

This could absolutely be the case. But I thought that was just for when you are selected to join an alliance. It could very well be for both cases though.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by lineskier

After watching SVR and watching the alliance selection, I can't believe how bad some of the alliance selection has been. The fact that 691 wasn't picked at all is mind boggling to me. Maybe its just me, but alliance selection seems horribly unorganized and is costing some teams banners.

On another note I am excited to see if the 2nd alliance can beat the poofs. I think they have a significant chance of pulling it off!

While texting mentors of 1323, their reasoning is that 604 has a functional minibot, whereas 691 does not.

I was surprised 691 wasn't picked as well.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

While texting mentors of 1323, their reasoning is that 604 has a functional minibot, whereas 691 does not.

I was surprised 691 wasn't picked as well.

This is when you enter the grey area, what's worth more: a semi functional minibot or a good robot. There is no answer, and at the end of the day you have to roll the dice. Unfortunately for them the selection didn't pan out.

If you can't get a proven minibot, I would go for a proven robot. 691 is gorgeous and powerful. A well deserving 3rd pick. but then again it comes down to autonomous and minibots(which 691 lacked both)

[alectronic]

I heard from a ref at a different event that I called when I saw this that they would probably have classified this as a decline, and thus they would not be eligible to play at all. So, as pointed out, they probably chose to play over get nothing.