NERD: Good, or bad???

Originally Posted by demosthenes2k8

A teammate says "good", I say "kinda negative, I prefer geek."

I always thought they were the same. It doesn't matter, we're all FIRST'ers!

[Alan Anderson]

I believe that "nerd" carries a connotation of social awkwardness. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's certainly not something to be proud of.

In my circle of friends in high school, many of us would have been labeled nerds by others. Looking back at it from my present point of view, I think it's because we didn't think "being popular" was worth spending a lot of energy on, when there were so many other interesting things to keep our focus. Participating in choir, math and chess clubs, playing euchre during lunch, planning and carrying out intricate senior pranks, helping to maintain the auditorium audio system, and simply enjoying the quest for knowledge...who had time for practicing "popularity", or even trying to figure out what it was?

So we were nerds mostly because we enjoyed learning for learning's sake, and ignored being popular for popularity's sake. I think I prefer having done it that way, even if it means I didn't learn how to be effortlessly social at a young age and still need to intentionally concentrate on the task in order not to appear awkward in non-geeky social situations today.

The word "geek" is a completely different topic.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

A little déjà vu that I posted in a recent thread:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nerd
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nerd
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerd

And now for my two pennies.

Based solely on the definitions that I've linked to, I'd lean on the "negative" side. While we could go on a mission to redefine a word that has been around longer than FIRST itself, I think we're better off pushing that term to the back of our mind when it comes to describing the [widely-varied] participants in the program as a whole.

FIRST, while being a very tech-minded program, attracts all sorts of people. Some of them go on to be business entrepreneurs, others graphics designers, and, of course, engineers, programmers, and everything in between. So to assume that the star basketball player or the girl who is the leading role of the school play are nerds, is wrong. At Buckeye (the only regional I've ever attended), I see all sorts of people, some who would (rightly) be offended by being called a nerd. They listen to all sorts of music, they're from various parts of the city, some of them are really outward people. But because they're a part of an activity that involves a bit of science, they should automatically be labeled a 'nerd'?

And to be honest, even those of us who ARE techies or engies and are a part of FIRST aren't "nerds" in the true sense of the word. For one, if we're so darn socially awkward, why are we interacting with a group of people for 6+ weeks, then going to a large event akin to a sports game and mingling with hundreds or thousands of others? And as I mentioned earlier, some people are a part of their school's athletic programs, so they must be at least somewhat physically fit.


I know my long posts are generally full of flawed logic and rambling, my point is, unless you can convince the dictionary (and our entire society) to redefine the word, it's best not to apply it to an entire organization that represents a huge range of personalities, some who are anything but nerds.

I find it strange that Wikipedia focuses on a definition of nerd that the dictionaries don't even mention. This could mean
1) the Wikipedia article was written by nerds
or/and
2) while dictionaries reflect the etymological history of a word, sources like Wikipedia reflect the overwhelming social attitude towards the word.
Definitions, despite the fact they are supposed to convey meaning, can be quite shallow in doing so and, as a result, don't always give an accurate idea of word usage, but rather what it is supposed to mean. In other words, the definitions in dictionaries come from a completely different variant of English than that spoken in everyday life .

This is the definition of "Nerd", written by "Nerds".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerd

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

1. "Nerd" doesn't mean you're socially awkward, or strange in any way. I have no idea where you've been, but at every competition I've been to, all of the "Nerds" are there, being more social than any other person I've known! They're there, dancing and singing, talking with other teams, and doing the coolest and funniest things no one else would ever be able to do!

It's been the same way at every competition that I've been to as well. Anyone who considers themselves a nerd will feel at home in FIRST. Anyone who doesn't can also feel at home. Within FIRST, "nerd" has no derogatory meaning.

However, I've also attended public schools for the past 13 years of my life. Being classified as a nerd in my school isn't a good reputation to have. My brother is three years younger than I am, yet is only half a year behind me in math classes (I'm in regular precalculus, and he's in "Honors Accelerated Algebra II"). He does all of his work in his head - he doesn't own a graphing calculator. I'm glad to hear that he understands the work and is good at it. But, more than once has he been called a nerd for that, usually in the form of a sneer. "Your brother is such a nerd" isn't music to my ears when I know that it has a negative connotation to most of the school.

As part of one of our spirit weeks, one of the days was "nerd day." Kids showed up to school with thick-rimmed glasses, socks and sandals, and pants pulled up to mid-chest. I know that that's how movies and other media outlets stereotype nerds, but I was slightly offended. I do consider myself a nerd in the "intellectual badass" kind of sense - I wore a shirt that I own that says "NERD IS THE WORD" with a picture of Spongebob on it. But I was offended that, if I were to widely broadcast myself as a nerd, I would be perceived as socially inept, "behind the times," and as someone who is "supposed to" be shoved in a locker. When I was younger, anyone who was considered a nerd, geek or dork was essentially disowned by the rest of the class. Had they wanted to play four-square or kickball at recess (though they usually chose not to), they would have been laughed at on the spot. In the classroom, they were generally made fun of behind their backs. As ashamed as I am of it now, I did take part in some of it. At that age, kids don't usually have an understanding of anything but the social norm, and unless acted upon by some kind of outside influence, they maintain that attitude in high school.


2 cents.

[EricH]

Dictionary definition has very little to do with connotation.
Dictionary definition has even less to do with context.
Connotation is not defined by nerds, but by everybody.
Non-nerds will have a different-ish definition of the word "nerd"--defined by connotation.

Incidentally, if I were to call synth3tk a particular term, I'd expect him to be pretty mad at me. If he were to call me that same term, I'd probably figure it as a compliment, or him calling me a friend. (Term not stated for various reasons--including me not wanting to have him mad at me.) One word, two different connotations, both depending on context and who's actually saying it.

So, if a nerd-type (there are many) calls someone a nerd, it can be seen as a compliment. If a jock-type calls someone a nerd, it's probably an insult. If a jock-type calls someone a jock, it's probably a compliment. But if a nerd-type calls someone a jock, it's probably not complimentary.

Context and connotation are key to determining whether a word is good or bad. "Nerd" has a negative connotation--unless someone who is a nerd-type calls you one. Same for "jock". Clear?

Originally Posted by Karibou

It's been the same way at every competition that I've been to as well. Anyone who considers themselves a nerd will feel at home in FIRST. Anyone who doesn't can also feel at home. Within FIRST, "nerd" has no derogatory meaning.

However, I've also attended public schools for the past 13 years of my life. Being classified as a nerd in my school isn't a good reputation to have. My brother is three years younger than I am, yet is only half a year behind me in math classes (I'm in regular precalculus, and he's in "Honors Accelerated Algebra II"). He does all of his work in his head - he doesn't own a graphing calculator. I'm glad to hear that he understands the work and is good at it. But, more than once has he been called a nerd for that, usually in the form of a sneer. "Your brother is such a nerd" isn't music to my ears when I know that it has a negative connotation to most of the school.

As part of one of our spirit weeks, one of the days was "nerd day." Kids showed up to school with thick-rimmed glasses, socks and sandals, and pants pulled up to mid-chest. I know that that's how movies and other media outlets stereotype nerds, but I was slightly offended. I do consider myself a nerd in the "intellectual badass" kind of sense - I wore a shirt that I own that says "NERD IS THE WORD" with a picture of Spongebob on it. But I was offended that, if I were to widely broadcast myself as a nerd, I would be perceived as socially inept, "behind the times," and as someone who is "supposed to" be shoved in a locker. When I was younger, anyone who was considered a nerd, geek or dork was essentially disowned by the rest of the class. Had they wanted to play four-square or kickball at recess (though they usually chose not to), they would have been laughed at on the spot. In the classroom, they were generally made fun of behind their backs. As ashamed as I am of it now, I did take part in some of it. At that age, kids don't usually have an understanding of anything but the social norm, and unless acted upon by some kind of outside influence, they maintain that attitude in high school.


2 cents.

A lot of people have said this, and it's true: It's all about your perception of the word. My school is a major sports school, and currently, they don't consider robotics a sport. What I find different between us, and the "tech" schools in our area, is that we're more well known (in and out of school) for the things we do. At our school, ALL of the students know who we are, and the robotics we do. Even the admin know what we do. WHY? Because we incorporate robotics into popular culture. For the sports, we built a robot that can catch footballs that have been thrown, and kick them. The football team begs us to use Kick-Off (The robot). We created a t-shirt slingshot robot, and Longshot (the robot) is shown at most major school sporting events.

Robotics won't be known as "cool" until everybody else sees how awesome it is. Unfortunately, society won't come to us. We have to go to them.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by EricH

Dictionary definition has very little to do with connotation.
Dictionary definition has even less to do with context.
Connotation is not defined by nerds, but by everybody.
Non-nerds will have a different-ish definition of the word "nerd"--defined by connotation.

Incidentally, if I were to call synth3tk a particular term, I'd expect him to be pretty mad at me. If he were to call me that same term, I'd probably figure it as a compliment, or him calling me a friend. (Term not stated for various reasons--including me not wanting to have him mad at me.) One word, two different connotations, both depending on context and who's actually saying it.

So, if a nerd-type (there are many) calls someone a nerd, it can be seen as a compliment. If a jock-type calls someone a nerd, it's probably an insult. If a jock-type calls someone a jock, it's probably a compliment. But if a nerd-type calls someone a jock, it's probably not complimentary.

Context and connotation are key to determining whether a word is good or bad. "Nerd" has a negative connotation--unless someone who is a nerd-type calls you one. Same for "jock". Clear?

Debating has never been my strong point. Was just trying to argue my point the best way I could.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, while we may be fine with being called nerds, saying that FIRST is for nerds will sound negative to the huge chunk of the very people we're trying to attract.

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Saying that FIRST is for nerds will sound negative to the huge chunk of the very people we're trying to attract.

FIRST is for everybody!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Debating has never been my strong point. Was just trying to argue my point the best way I could.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, while we may be fine with being called nerds, saying that FIRST is for nerds will sound negative to the huge chunk of the very people we're trying to attract.

Yep, and that's also kind of what I was trying to say.

I wasn't intending to go after your post--you just happened to be handy for an example. I'll PM you with why.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

I guess what I'm trying to say is, while we may be fine with being called nerds, saying that FIRST is for nerds will sound negative to the huge chunk of the very people we're trying to attract.

Why would we say that?

Team: people go in--> nerds come out

[generalarin]

Team: people go in--> nerds come out

lol, true!

Personally, I'm a *super*nerd. ^^

Eh, it's normally a negitive- but since people stopped minding and find it more funny then insulting, it's become positive!

To quote an old teacher of mine: "Nerds rule the world!!!" (Look at the dudes who made Google... )

[JamesBrown]

Building on one of EricH's posts...

I am kind of curious what the people who have used the term jock in this thread consider a jock. Do you see that term having negative connotation, what attributes does a jock have? Are Jocks and nerds mutually exclusive?

I personally don't consider myself a jock or a nerd, I am a computer engineer with a strong interest in "nerdy" things (sci-fi, hobby robotics, general science and tech), however I also play rugby at a high level (LAU and territorial all-stars). I currently play for a team coached by a former professional rugby player (from England) who has multiple advanced degrees in engineering. I guess my question is if you classify some people as "nerds" and some as "jocks" how do you classify someone who often gets IEEE Spectrum delivered on the same day as Sports Illustrated?

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

Building on one of EricH's posts...

I am kind of curious what the people who have used the term jock in this thread consider a jock. Do you see that term having negative connotation, what attributes does a jock have? Are Jocks and nerds mutually exclusive?

I personally don't consider myself a jock or a nerd, I am a computer engineer with a strong interest in "nerdy" things (sci-fi, hobby robotics, general science and tech), however I also play rugby at a high level (LAU and territorial all-stars). I currently play for a team coached by a former professional rugby player (from England) who has multiple advanced degrees in engineering. I guess my question is if you classify some people as "nerds" and some as "jocks" how do you classify someone who often gets IEEE Spectrum delivered on the same day as Sports Illustrated?

The simple terms of "Jock" would be as follows:
Jock - One who plays sports.

Now while that's the simple definition, it doesn't mean anything good or bad. The same thing with nerd. It's neither defined as good, or bad. It's your perception of the words that counts. If you define being a nerd or a jock a good thing, then its good. If you define them as being bad things, they're bad. There is no set definition on whether any are considered "good" or "bad".

P.S: I respect you for doing robotics and sports. We had a guy on our team last year, who was captain of the football team, one of the head robotics members, and kept a 4.0 GPA. It's tough to balance out all of those things, especially demanding activities such as robotics and sports!

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

Why would we say that?

Team: people go in--> nerds come out

You can't explain that!