2002 game prediction contest!!!

[Ken Leung]

We are getting so close to kick off now (30 days to be exact), and a little bet of the game won't hurt! So come on in and post your prediction, whether it's just the format of the game, or the entire game itself.

I've decided to start a little prediction competition, and the price will be one pair of scrub pants for each of the two closest guesses to the competition!!! (for more info of the scrub pants, take a look at this link: Help an alum, wear scrub pants this season! )

Yes, that's right. If you take a random guess of the game, and turns out you are one of the two closest to the actual competition, you will win a pair of scrub pants made by Jessica Boucher's lovely company (you won't have to pay, of course...). You can even decide the logo yourself!

I know you all have been making guesses now and then at here and there, but now, it's time to take it seriously, and win a price!

I know a lot of you are tired of writing the same thing over and over again, so I did a little research through the threads and come up with a list of people and their predictions. If you see your name in it, and want to modify your prediction, just post a reply. If you DON’T see your name in it, then START POSTING!!!


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I realize a lot of these aren’t thought through… so feel free to post your serious prediction. And a lot of these predictions are similar, so it would be great if there’s more details. Some of you probably want to modify your prediction to increase your chance of winning.

-Mike Soukup: it could be 2 v 2 v 2. We'll get a taste of this format in a month for CDI (which uses a 24x24 field). When I saw the game for CDI, I was a little disapointed because I liked it so much and I thought FIRST would be less likely to use a similar game.

-Patrickrd: I also do not think the field dimensions will be the same this year, unless they go back to 2v2 or something like 3v3. 3v3 maybe, but I don't think we'll see alliances with more than 2 teams. Thus, in my opinion, I think we'll see a 2v2v2 or no alliances at all... Or something completely out of the ordinary that none of us are expecting.

-Chris Hibner: I think 4 in a match everyone for themselves is a great idea. It could be a great game theory experiment, where if the teams cooperate in some aspect, all of their scores will be higher, but there is still a winner. I see that there will be a cooperation period at the beginning of each match, then as soon as one robot back-stabs the others, all hell will break loose. It could be quite entertaining.

-EddieMcD: Anyhow, I'd like to see it go back to the 1 v 1 v 1 format. I happen to be a big fan of Torrid Terror. That, and we took 2nd in 98.
I still say the main obstecle wont be very obstructive to movement, only scoring i.e., a spinning goal. I am also going to predict that we have to manipulate more than 1 shape (cube, pyramid, sphere). And perhaps lighten the restrictions on opposing contact between machines.

-M.O.E. Hoe: Last years game wasn't appealing to me from the actual match prospective. I wasn't all gung hoe and maybe the 1 vs 1 vs 1 would bring excitment back into the match.

-Nate: I think footballs will be the objects of play this year. Also i think the field will be taller, meaning your robot needs to extened more.

-Kane: Me and my sparks of wisdom, I think this year will be a 2 on 2 matchup, where the object is to throw as many of your opponents balls or something to that effect out of the arena. So what you have to do is collect the yours and throw the other teams out.

-MrsT: How about some kind of obstacle course / scavenger hunt.....with MANY different ways to score points-- ....field including maybe a 3 ft tall platform "the stage" where robots could earn points & collect props by climbing on top or crawling underneath......balls through hoops, frisbees through hole, rings on pole, boxes stacked on shelf....etc Ample small point props.....limited big point items. No robot could possibly do it all. Simple scoring.......2 pt per ball here.......3 pt per ball there......etc Would get a WIDE variety of bots......making for very interesting alliances

-Dave... Ping pong balls, tennis balls and hockey pucks have been on my mind the past two years. To say that footballs are too difficult to handle for many teams seems to only encourage Dean and Woodie to maybe consider such an item. This is supposed to be a challenge, right? The only problem I see with ping pong and tennis balls is their size. The drivers would have a hard time even seeing them, and resetting the playing field after every match might be cumbersome.

I would like to get away from the balls...maybe something more like foam cubes that you have to stack... Or, if you want some involvement of water, how about carrying water balloons across the field?? (just kidding, really bad idea). Having a playing field where the teams can play and set-up simultaneously (like the past two years) really seem to help speed up the competition. Now, if we could only get the scoring to be more simplistic so that the ref's don't have to take so long, then we'd be in business!

-Matt Leese: I've been saying it since '98 and I'll say it again: inflatable cubes.

-Andy Baker: Good idea with the stairs. Along with stairs, we could have firehose as a scoring object. We could drag the hose around the playing field, up and over the stairs and place the hose into a fixture. That way, 6 months from now, all or our communities would have fire-fighting robots. In the wake of 9-11... this would be a way that we could make an impact. 2002 competition will be 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 1, or 4 teams on the field at a time, each scoring their own points. There could be some co-operation on the field, but each team could get their own score.

-OtakuRob: In my humble opinion, I think we'll go back to the 2 on 2 format, or some variation thereof.. I think that they saw last year that some direct competion brings out a better experience.. Don't get me wrong, I loved the game last year, but I liked the direct competition format of the previous year.. Aside from that, I think that it will have something to do with stairs, possibly moving some sort of object, and lets include the carrying of some object bigger than a breadbox..

-Ken Leung :

I will say, next year's game will be a weird version of 3 vs. 3, where 4 of the robots compete in the main stage, and the other two off to a side on a smaller competition of their own. They can all share a main field, and the 1 vs. 1 will have some sort of effect to the 2 vs. 2 on the main stage (maybe the 1 vs. 1 fight for a defensive position to de-score for their alliance partners?).

So there will be alliances of 3 robot, where you have to decide how to pair up two of the three robot, and if it's worth putting the best robot on a one to one match. This will require some really different robots, some really good planning to pair up different robots at a time facing some other weird combinations.

-Tom Fairchild: I've said it before in other threads, and I'll say it again. I think that rope would be cool. maybe having them strung across the field, maybe having the pull them in, maybe even having to tie knots with (ick! Now that'd be hard!!). But in general, rope would be a heck of a lot of fun to work with.

-Jeff Waegelin: We've seen really large balls in the game, but what about really small balls? Maybe we'll get a game where we have to pick up 300 tennis balls. It might be interesting to design something to move a large amount of small objects like that.

-Meaubry: Sorry Joe, but I gotta guess and if I nail it, a call from Dean wouldn't hurt that bad (or does it?) Anyway, I predict a 3 sets of 2 robots - like at CDI (really dynamic effect once you get to the finals) and the floor will float either on a cushion of air or pivot about a mid field axis. The game pieces will be square colored plastic boxes that measure 3ft per side. The object will be to - out score, out smart, and out play (sounds like a TV show to me) the other 2 teams by stacking the boxes on platforms that are located around the perimeter of the field. The higher the stack the more points you score for the team whos color box is on the very top. Colors and team assignments are shared at the completion of the 2 minute match. Thats it - its that simple!

[Joe Ross]

hmm, this thread is in the rumor mill, does that mean that the prize is only a rumor?

[Ken Leung]

It depends if people actually care about this or not...

If there are definite responds that show the people are willing to participate in a guessing game, then I will be willing to give out the price.

If not, then I will just ask Brandon to delete this post and pretend nothing ever happened.

Maybe the price isn't attractive enough?

[Elgin Clock]

Ok here it goes:

Same size field,
Same #4 teams,
Same 2 min match time
Same grey carpeting! lol

Changes are: Two ways to other side, Stairs (maybe three max) in the direct central location of the field, like where the ramp was last year and two 30 degree ramps with a flat spots on top of of it for enough room for bin (keep reading) The flat spot will also have a small hole on top of it for human player interaction. (trust me keep reading)

Objects to manuver, same small balls worth 5pts, but also smaller balls, maybe 4" Dia. school yard balls. worth 10 pts. Let's face it smaller balls are harder to grab! Circular base shaped bin like the goal last year!

Multipliers: yes I predict these will return; balance the Circle shape bin on stairs X2 balance the bin on peak of ramp with assistance 1X with out assistance 4X Same time multipliers as last year!

two vs. two

No endzone but if bot is on top of stairs when time is over; 20 pts. per robot but probably only one can fit on there!

No intentional bot blocking but human players can throw a ball in the hole on the opponent's ramp to disable opponents robot for 15 secs.

No Stretcher but a fleet of FIRST built bots for users to control in an emergency situation! This would be a must to familiarize yourself with on the first day of comp!

Sound fun huh?
Come on people, do you really think the game is going to get less complicated??
I think not!

[Dave Hurt]

Ok, here's my shot, although it's a pretty long one...

I can bet any money it's going to be at least a 2 v 2 competition. Only the objectives this year are going to be those long styrofoam noodles. As well as some sort of single object, like the movable puck or the hanging bar, that the robots will have to fight over to achieve their goal.

[E. The Kidd]

Based on my knowledge of previous FIRST games, the robots have had to pick up something. This year I think that there may be something similar to a soccer game or something hard to grab and lift

or

Maybe it will be a game based on sports. After all, we all know how to play football and basketball etc. But the question would be, "Could we make a robot to perform all of actions needed to play the game?"

[Tom Fairchild]

Okee, gone through this a few other times, but one more time can't hurt. Anyways, I'm really thinking that it'll be a 3 vs. 3 but a non-agressive style, like a relay run or some other competition where teams compete directly but not truely against each other. That way the game can be TV friendly, not have physical contact or other situations where people might get upset with each other, and having 6 people on the field instead of 4 lets teams have more matches per competition (a HUGE issue last year at some regionals). As for the materials, I'm going to have to say rope. Rope would be a lot of fun to work with (if you want more reasons, check out my posts on the older threads with this topic). No matter what though, this competition is going to be fun.

~Tom Fairchild~, who's looking forward to the game that "is so sick, even [Dean] is proud of it."

[Andy Baker]

Originally posted by team 713

Maybe it will be a game based on sports. After all, we all know how to play football and basketball etc. But the question would be, "Could we make a robot to perform all of actions needed to play the game?"

YEAH! Basketball! I like your thinking. I've wanted a basketball-like game for the past couple of years.

A game that's easy to understand, media friendly, and complicated enough for us to handle.

"Basketball Jones... I'm just a basketball Jones. Basketball Jones, oh baby ooo-oooo-ooooaoooo."

Andy B.

ps... we're doing a robot demo tonight at a Kokomo High School game... there will probably be 5,000 people in the stands.

[nick reynolds]

OK Ken heres my Idea again, I posted this a while ago and thought it would peek a new interest.

Well heres an idea for this year, you need skill, stratedgy and luck........
First all perameters of the field stay the same except there are three against three robots. each three are at opposit ends.
Dividing the field is a shelving unit, 8 feet high with 6 shelves. at each end of the field are 1' cubes painted different colors. each shelf is worth points and the higher you go the more points you get. The object of the game is to place the cubes on any of the shelves from your side. teams on the other side are doing the same. teams may not push an opponents cubes off the unit but they may steal them off the shelves and keep them in their own side for extra points.
At the start of the game the aliance will chose a secret color and hand a card to the judge. If at the end of the game the other side has taken any of your cubes that have this secret color then your team gets multiple points and the other side looses points. However you have to be careful what you steal or leave on the shelves. Blocking the shelf would also be alowed.
Moving cubes from one shelf down would be alowed.
Thats my Idea. Anyway I think it will involve cubes, Its the only shape FIRST has never used yet.

Theres no inter-action but a lot of strategy and theres a surprise to the scoring, This could be what was meant when it was said that Dean Quoted... who's looking forward to the game that "is so sick, even [Dean] is proud of it."
We shall see in less than 30 Days eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek
Nick237

[Ken Loyd]

My crystal ball (clouded by the always blue skies of Arizona) see four teams cooperating but with greater opportunities for individual teams to amass points.

After a bout with terminal sunstroke, I had a vision of our robot kicking, shooting or throwing an object through a goal.

[Elgin Clock]

I believe if there is a multiplier, that one of these years the multiplier would be worth PI!!!
Crazy HUH?

I believe I recently read an article that said Dean has money on his Country/Island and that one of the monitary units are worth PI?

[Kenny Ardizzone]

I vote for this one:
-Chris Hibner: I think 4 in a match everyone for themselves is a great idea. It could be a great game theory experiment, where if the teams cooperate in some aspect, all of their scores will be higher, but there is still a winner. I see that there will be a cooperation period at the beginning of each match, then as soon as one robot back-stabs the others, all hell will break loose. It could be quite entertaining.

But, also would like to throw these ideas in:
* 4 vs 4: Take the excitment and competitiveness of 2001's eliminations and apply it to this year's qualification rounds.

* All integer multipliers. Points in groups of 5, 10, maybe even 100?!

* No bonuses, but opportunity to deduct points from the other alliance you are facing- whether they are playing in the same match (2 vs 2) or next/prev match (4 vs 4).

[mike o'leary]

i was thinking that they might go back to direct competition after last year, but now that i thnk about it, in light of recent events and deans explanation for the 4vs0 at nats, i dont think it will happen, though im still hopeful.
balls are definately out. theyve been around for too long now. im thinking itll be lots of little things, like...ok, we all remember those little thins we all used to play with as kids (ok, so maybe some of us still do...)...jaks...im thinking therell be like 1000's of little jaks in the field that the botsll have to do somethign with.
im also thinking that the field will not be a uniform level: itll be something more like this:
______ _______
|______|
where the bots would have to go over a drop off, then climb a ledge.
the jaks will be on the side opposite from where we start, in little dixie cups. there would be 15 dixie cups. well have to take the jaks out of the cup, and leave them in that dredged out section.
oh, and to throw in another little twist, you start on one side and if you end there its worth an extra 20%. so you go, put the jaks in the hole, then cross back over the jaks (remember, these are very little things...definately not something youd want to run the bot across.
each of the jaks would be worth one point. of course we dont want to count them, so if 150 jaks is 1 pound, then 1 pounld would be worth 150 points.
and the jaks would be in the dixie cups, but you cant just pick the dixie cup up and dump it out. theyd be tethered to the far wall. but if you take the cups and put them upside down, then each upside down cup would be worth 5 points. and if you put one cup upside down, and then another one right side up on top of that one, then that arangement would be worth 15 points and a x2 multiplier. every dixie cup that is left completely full (hasnt had any jaks taken out) is worth -3 points.
if youre bot can un-do the tether (untie it. cleanly. no harm done to the tether) then you CAN dump the jaks. also, if you can un-do all the tethers, put the dixie cups in the hole thing, without losing any jaks, then each cup is worth 8 points, plus a 10% multiplier and a x3 multiplier.
oh. and did i mention? all this in 2 minutes.
use all of the time allotted: there will be no time multipliers this year.

[E. The Kidd]

I have a headache now

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally posted by Ken Loyd

After a bout with terminal sunstroke, I had a vision of our robot kicking, shooting or throwing an object through a goal.

Funny you should mention that. OCCRA's Womens' Robotics Invitational used a game similar to soccer, with 2 on 2 and goals at each end. There was a "defense only" zone to prevent offense from getting too close, so you had to throw the ball (16") in the goal.