3 Year FRC Cycle? - The CON's

[OZ_341]

The only motivation for a change like this is $. This is about saving cash through the streamlining of logistics and purchasing.
This has very little to do with the students (or coaches) overall experience.

Despite the fact that my life would get so much easier, I am TOTALLY AGAINST THIS!!!

My question is this...... Are we trying to create a generation of innovators or a legion of kids that are really good at "Benchmarking" (i.e. copying) ideas?

[Michael Corsetto]

I don't want a year-round build season. January through April is enough for me.

[EricH]

I've also posted this in the pros thread...

But this isn't the first time this idea has come up. Back in 2005, the following thread proposed a replayed game: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=37726

Of course, it did have a few other proposed tweaks, but we'll assume those are completely forgotten about.

[Jon Stratis]

Personally... I would get bored. Yeah, the first year would be fun and exciting... But as a mentor, what's left for me to do in the second and third years? There's no real design portion left to help the kids with - they have a working robot with a design sitting right in front of them, and if they were smart, they walked around the regionals the previous year and took detailed notes about the best design so they could copy it. There's nothing new and novel for me to be excited about - I'd essentially be there to watch the kids use the machines and make sure they didn't cut off a limb.

[Alexa Stott]

This is a response to a post in the PRO's thread:

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

One of the main points brought up in the booklet article is the notion of leaving the game alone to promote spectator familiarity.

They don't completely reinvent the rules of popular televised American sports every year, and that is one of the main reasons such sports maintain the public's interest.

A 3 year game cycle would help the public grow attached to and fully understand and appreciate a particular game for a year or two before reinventing it for the next cycle.

But are we willing to sacrifice the benefits of one game per year in order to appeal to the public? People always talk about having FIRST on ESPN and whatnot, but I honestly don't see that being in the future and I don't understand why people want to emphasize it so much. Isn't FIRST about inspiring students to pursue careers in STEM? I understand that there is a lot of pandering to sponsors and sponsors want publicity, but at what cost? Additionally, most of the qualification matches (at least at regionals) are incredibly boring. There are some matches where 3-4 robots don't even move and the other two just sit there driving in circles, maybe scoring one game piece with their poorly implemented arm/claw. Sure, we might be able to get the public interested in the 2nd or 3rd year of the game, but, again, at what cost to the teams? It would also mean that the public would have to deal with a disappointing year every 3 years.

[JohnBoucher]

3 years of Regolith?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

3 years of Regolith?

How many minibot motors can we go through in 3 years?

[Taylor]

I think we've already got this. It's called BotBall.


I think we've already got this. It's called Battlebots.

[EricH]

3 years of:

Loading Zone violations (2005)
Line-crossing penalties (<G22>, 2008)
Lane violations (2011)
Card-happy rules (it's not even really the ref's fault--2011)
Fluky automatic scoring (2006, 2011)

Anybody want that?

The best way to handle a 3-year game is to change point values (say, lower minibot points/raise tube points) and tweak penalties between the years, and maybe make a tweak to the game itself (Lunacy on carpet, anyone?). Oh, and improve stuff like I mentioned earlier.

[JesseK]

Essentially what we'd get is a great first year of the cycle and 2 more years of apathy.

Exactly how are we supposed to motivate students to THINK about a challenge from problem to product if they already know the solutions to the challenge? I think a 2-year cycle would be better, and would allow for exactly 1 chance for another design cycle. Not only could teams redeem themselves for past failures, the GDC could redeem themselves for some of the worst rules in the year. Then, they could also add a twist to the game that would enable them to further challenge teams (4th logomotion shape, 4 levels instead of 3, add in this idea for the minibot, etc).

[Brandon Holley]

I've seen it mentioned briefly already, but I want to reiterate it...

The only way this would possibly be accepted by the current FIRST community is if the game was modified each year. Maybe the relative obstacles stay the same and its a different game piece, or maybe the game pieces stay the same with different obstacles. Basically, it would allow you to use a skeleton of a robot for all 3 years and then just tweak year to year.

I'm still totally against it, but if it were simply the same game for 3 consecutive years, I'd imagine by year 3 we would see nothing but an army of whatever robot 1114 came up with in year 1.

-Brando

[dmitch]

Once the programmer has completed the autonomous code and teleop code he has nothing to do for the next 3 years.

[Zuelu562]

Originally Posted by dmitch

Once the programmer has completed the autonomous code and teleop code he has nothing to do for the next 3 years.

On the upside; a programmer's job is never complete (as one, trust me, it almost never will).

Unless they require teams to do some crazy stuff when it comes to their bots in between seasons, it's very likely something like this will occur.

[PayneTrain]

That gives me two more years to tear apart the game for being too rule-happy or too beneficial to high-dollar teams or too one-sided or too simple or too complex...

Why would anyone want this in FIRST? The organizations that do this are nowhere near as awesome.

Also, on the topic of national coverage on basic cable---

What is happening at the end of April that anyone really cares about? Besides some NBA Playoff games, ESPN is probably covering bowling and golf tournaments. The novelty and value of broadcasting the nationals seems huge. You only need 10 cameras and 10 commentators, with maybe a couple field correspondents.

It's like the Watson Challenge: it's so novel and uncommon, people would want to see what happens.

Heck, just get elim/Einstein day on TV. That would be quality.

[Basel A]

My favorite part of the build season is the first two weeks (preliminary strategy and design).. and this would essentially push that to 2-3 weeks every 3 years!