Go to Post why would someone do that? Go on the internet and tell lies? - MaGiC_PiKaChU [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #31   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 15:22
Jaxom Jaxom is offline
Registered User
AKA: Michael Hartwig
FRC #1986 (Team Titanium)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 379
Jaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant futureJaxom has a brilliant future
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges View Post
Robot Inspectors are there to help you, not hurt you. If we find a problem with your robot, please don't say "It passed at XXXX regional". The inspector may have misread the rules or just missed it. We will do everything to help you out.
I'm sure there's some non-zero probability of an inspector who's never missed anything (clearly NOT me), but the number is so small as to be not worth calculating. We're all human and there's a lot to look for. In my brief (2-year) inspecting career I've seen, among other things, these items that had passed a previous inspection:
* Illegally-supported bumpers last year that passed at least three inspections
* A robot without a pressure relief valve. It wasn't that the valve was in the wrong place -- it wasn't installed, and the students didn't know what it was for when we found it in their parts box.
* A manual vent plug valve that was accessed by reaching through the kicker (last year).
* A main breaker "installed" by hanging it from its wires from the robot superstructure.

I'd be scared to see the list that Al could come up with. The bottom line is that no inspector can assume that any previous inspectors are perfect.

See you on Curie.
__________________


Mentor http://www.teamtitanium.org/
Reply With Quote
  #32   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 20:29
Paul Copioli's Avatar Unsung FIRST Hero Woodie Flowers Award
Paul Copioli Paul Copioli is offline
President, VEX Robotics, Inc.
FRC #3310 (Black Hawk Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Rockwall, TX
Posts: 1,393
Paul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond reputePaul Copioli has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Al,

I am confused by your post regarding battery chargers. You state the maximum charge current is 900mA, but the charger that comes in the FTC kit can charge at a 1.5A in one of the settings.

This is the same exact charger as the VEX Smart Charger from the same supplier. The only difference is that the VEX Charger has VEX Blue plastic as opposed to the supplier's standard black.

I am confused because you are going to see one irate ThunderChicken if inspectors try to tell me my VEX chargers are not legal to charge.

Paul
__________________
In full disclosure I am the President of VEX Robotics, a division of Innovation First International.
Reply With Quote
  #33   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 20:52
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,529
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
OK,
Last installment I hope....
Let's talk about minibot batteries. As I posted earlier, you may not modify any battery including the minibot batteries. There are two types of legal minibot batteries and the difference is simply the color of the shrink wrap. If you purchased your batteries in the last six to eight months, they likely came in black shrink wrap. If you purchased them earlier or bought them from someone who still had older style on the shelf, then the shrink is clear. Both are legal FTC and minibot batteries. The black looks cooler while the clear allows you to see if there is any damage or leaking. Modifying includes removing the connector or adding a different one, cutting the wires, opening the shrink wrap and/or separating the cells.
Battery chargers....

Good Luck everyone!
So, it is illegal to use a different connector on the minibot?
Reply With Quote
  #34   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 21:19
ratdude747's Avatar
ratdude747 ratdude747 is offline
Official Scorekeeper
AKA: Larry Bolan
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,065
ratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post
So, it is illegal to use a different connector on the minibot?
yes. I think radio shack has these if you destroyed the one in the tetrix kit. they come as an extension if you need 2 (chop in half and strip)
__________________
Dean's List Semi-finalist 2010
1747 Harrison Boiler Robotics 2008-2010, 2783 Engineers of Tomorrow 2011, Event Volunteer 2012-current

DISCLAIMER: Any opinions/comments posted are solely my personal opinion and does not reflect the views/opinions of FIRST, IndianaFIRST, or any other organization.
Reply With Quote
  #35   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 21:24
Tristan Lall's Avatar
Tristan Lall Tristan Lall is offline
Registered User
FRC #0188 (Woburn Robotics)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Rookie Year: 1999
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,484
Tristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond reputeTristan Lall has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli View Post
I am confused by your post regarding battery chargers. You state the maximum charge current is 900mA, but the charger that comes in the FTC kit can charge at a 1.5A in one of the settings.

This is the same exact charger as the VEX Smart Charger from the same supplier. The only difference is that the VEX Charger has VEX Blue plastic as opposed to the supplier's standard black.

I am confused because you are going to see one irate ThunderChicken if inspectors try to tell me my VEX chargers are not legal to charge.
I believe Al is just making a recommendation. ("The minibot batteries are best charged by a smart charger at no more than 900ma made for charging NiMH batteries.") There's no robot rule this year regarding which chargers are legal.
Reply With Quote
  #36   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 21:27
1986titans's Avatar
1986titans 1986titans is offline
1986: It's a team #, not a year.
AKA: Paul Shackelford
FRC #1986 (Team Titanium)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Manhattan, KS / LSMO
Posts: 228
1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future1986titans has a brilliant future
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Yeah, I believe it's just a recommendation also. There have been reports of teams having problem with the batteries when they were charging at 1.8A (CD has a couple of threads about it I think), so many have adopted the 900mA charging setting as a precaution.
__________________
Paul Shackelford - http://www.archkc.com/
Kansas State University - Electrical Engineering '15
Team Titanium - Lee's Summit West HS - FRC 1986 - Student [2009-2011] - Captain [2011] - College Mentor [2012]

Reply With Quote
  #37   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 23:25
Unsung FIRST Hero
JVN JVN is offline
@JohnVNeun
AKA: John Vielkind-Neun
FRC #0148 (Robowranglers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Greenville, Tx
Posts: 3,159
JVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond reputeJVN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Lall View Post
I believe Al is just making a recommendation. ("The minibot batteries are best charged by a smart charger at no more than 900ma made for charging NiMH batteries.") There's no robot rule this year regarding which chargers are legal.
Hi Tristan,
Any chance you're inspecting in Newton this year?

-John
__________________
In the interest of full disclosure: I work for VEX Robotics a subsidiary of Innovation First International (IFI) Crown Supplier & Proud Supporter of FIRST
Reply With Quote
  #38   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-04-2011, 23:37
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,808
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Paul,
This is a recommendation for 900 ma (or less) chargers. The higher setting on the supplied charger, produces a lot of heat. I have had reports of teams attempting to use chargers of much higher current. Standard charge for these batteries is normally stated at 1/10 C to 1/3 C or 300 ma to 900 ma for a 5-10 hr charge cycle. Chargers have been reported at some events at currents in excess of 3000 ma. Without temperature feedback from the battery to charger, which is not provided by the Tetrix battery, these chargers can be dangerous as excess gas builds up and temperatures reach the point where burns may occur.

Adam,
The minibot battery can only be repaired with identical components as all other electrical devices.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Reply With Quote
  #39   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-04-2011, 05:41
Richard Wallace's Avatar
Richard Wallace Richard Wallace is offline
I live for the details.
FRC #3620 (Average Joes)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Southwestern Michigan
Posts: 3,678
Richard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond reputeRichard Wallace has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
The minibot battery can only be repaired with identical components as all other electrical devices.
I think the applicable rule is <R55>, which prohibits tampering with control system components (including batteries) and then lists specific modifications to the control system components that are permitted. Part M permits repairs as follows: "Devices may be repaired, provided the performance and specifications of the component after the repair are identical to those before the repair." [emphasis mine]

As an example, repairing damaged battery connectors might be permitted under <R55> part M, if the connector parts (i.e., AMP Mate-N-Lock style crimp terminals and plastic housings) used for the repair have performance and specifications that are identical to those of the original connectors.
__________________
Richard Wallace

Mentor since 2011 for FRC 3620 Average Joes (St. Joseph, Michigan)
Mentor 2002-10 for FRC 931 Perpetual Chaos (St. Louis, Missouri)
since 2003

I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
(Cosmic Religion : With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931) by Albert Einstein, p. 97)
Reply With Quote
  #40   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 18-04-2011, 07:45
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,808
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

From the Q&A...

Posted by GDC at 01/19/2011 07:27:13 pm
There is no prohibition against altering components from the Tetrix kit, other than motor
modifications strictly prohibited by Rule <R93> and the battery pack modifications prohibited
by Rule <R92>.

R92
C. no more than one 12V rechargeable NiMH battery pack identical to those supplied in the FTC kit of parts (PN W739057) except the 20A fuse may be replaced with an equivalent type of lower amperage,

Sorry to choose 'identical' from the wrong paragraph.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Reply With Quote
  #41   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-04-2011, 00:22
AdamHeard's Avatar
AdamHeard AdamHeard is offline
Lead Mentor
FRC #0973 (Greybots)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atascadero
Posts: 5,529
AdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond reputeAdamHeard has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to AdamHeard
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
From the Q&A...

Posted by GDC at 01/19/2011 07:27:13 pm
There is no prohibition against altering components from the Tetrix kit, other than motor
modifications strictly prohibited by Rule <R93> and the battery pack modifications prohibited
by Rule <R92>.

R92
C. no more than one 12V rechargeable NiMH battery pack identical to those supplied in the FTC kit of parts (PN W739057) except the 20A fuse may be replaced with an equivalent type of lower amperage,

Sorry to choose 'identical' from the wrong paragraph.
Would putting a tamiya connector back on return our $200 in modified batteries to "identical"?
Reply With Quote
  #42   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-04-2011, 07:55
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,808
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Adam,
If that is the connector that was supplied then yes.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Reply With Quote
  #43   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 19-04-2011, 11:34
NOV8R's Avatar
NOV8R NOV8R is offline
Registered User
AKA: Chuck Brant
FRC #1583
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 209
NOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud ofNOV8R has much to be proud of
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

I fly electric radio controled airplanes. The smart charger of choice (cheap & cheerful) is the Thunder AC6. We use it to charge our Tetrix batteries. It comes with a Tamiya connector. Being smart it tells you how much charge it takes to bring your batteries back to full. It has a Nimh setting we manually set to 900 mah max. Good news it's on sale now for $43. Here's a link

http://www.hobbypartz.com/thac6smbachw.html
Reply With Quote
  #44   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2011, 11:40
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,808
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Chuck,
That is a very interesting looking charger that has lot's of features including progamability for NiMH battery packs. I downloaded the manual and it has some interesting cautions including this one with my corrections in syntax added...

This charger and battery to be charged and
discharged should be set up on a heat-resistant, non-flammable
and non-conductive surface
. Never place
them on a car seat, carpet or similar.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Reply With Quote
  #45   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2011, 12:06
Wayne Doenges's Avatar
Wayne Doenges Wayne Doenges is offline
We Build Robots......and Careers
AKA: Warthog
FRC #1501 (Team T.H.R.U.S.T.)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Huntington, Indiana
Posts: 6,327
Wayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond reputeWayne Doenges has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
This charger and battery to be charged and
discharged should be set up on a heat-resistant, non-flammable
and non-conductive surface. Never place
them on a car seat, carpet or similar.
This is a very good caution.
Way back when I used to fly electric R/C airplanes (I still fly planes) and we used NiCad batteries. I made the mistake of charging the battery on the plastic piece, in front of the headlight, of my Dodge 024 Miser. The mistake was leaving the battery unattended. When I got back the battery had melted the plastic bumper
__________________
We Build Robots and Careers
World's - #1 seeded in Archimedes, WON Archimedes and made it to Einstein
2016 NC District - Guilford County. #13 seeded, Finalist. Won Quality award.
IN District - Tippecanoe. #4 seeded. Won Innovation in Control award.
IN District - Perry Meridian. #3 seeded. Finalist. Won Excellence in Engineering award.
IN District - State Championship. #1 seeded. Finalist. Won Excellence inn Engineering award.



Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:13.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi