Gus 228's 1.3 second Minibot

[O'Sancheski]

Love it.

Wish you guys had it at WPI.

[davepowers]

Thanks for the positive feedback everyone! Only 7 more days!

Originally Posted by O'Sancheski

Wish you guys had it at WPI.

You and me both!

[PhilBot]

That's very cool.

I love it when everyone is saying that the minibot secret is out, and there is nothing new to be done, and then somone comes out with a cool innovation like this.

Nice job!!

I wonder how far you can push the "no stored energy" rule? What about a ski ramp solution with a 1 second pre-drop to build up speed

Phil.

[RMS11]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

That's very cool.

I wonder how far you can push the "no stored energy" rule? What about a ski ramp solution with a 1 second pre-drop to build up speed

Phil.

I wish this was legal, unfortunately i believe it would not be allowed... Maybe if you could make it at an angle where the minibot did not fall due to the magnet?

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by PhilBot

I love it when everyone is saying that the minibot secret is out, and there is nothing new to be done, and then somone comes out with a cool innovation like this.

Nice job!!

With all due respect to 228 and their well engineered minibot solution, the "ramp" deployment for minibots has been on robots since Week 2, when 190 and 233 independently competed with the ramp design. 228 and 190 were both at the WPI regional together, and I suspect they were inspired.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

With all due respect to 228 and their well engineered minibot solution, the "ramp" deployment for minibots has been on robots since Week 2, when 190 and 233 independently competed with the ramp design. 228 and 190 were both at the WPI regional together, and I suspect they were inspired.

Sorry

I was just going by what I'd seen here at CD.

Didn't mean to offend.

Phil.

It's tough to be PC here!

[davepowers]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

228 and 190 were both at the WPI regional together, and I suspect they were inspired.

Spot on, 190 was a very big inspiration, along with Pink. But i'm sure they weren't the only ones with the idea around week 2. But for our team, we are not claiming we came up with the idea by any means, we just tried to make it better.

[s_forbes]

You guys have a good knack for making very finished looking products. Can't wait to check it out in person in Newton!

[jordie228]

Finally!
Now how's that OI coming.... ;P

[davepowers]

Originally Posted by jordie228

Now how's that OI coming.... ;P

About that....

[Nafez]

awesome job guys, we have one that can go up in about 1.17 seconds plus about .5 for deployment. what's the fastest one anyone has/has heard of?

[crazyStone]

we have 1.05 seconds for straight climbing, we are attempting to speed that up so we can break 1 second, and our deployer is also being reworked....

[Wayne TenBrink]

I am not convinced that this is legal.

I understand that your minibot provides all the energy for vertical movement - no energy comes from the hostbot. However, there is more to Rule <G19> than just where the energy comes from. It also requires all such energy to be
provided "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Section 1.6 of the game manual defines the start of DEPLOYMENT as the moment at which the minibot first crosses the vertical projection of the tower base (not when the clock reaches 10 seconds, and not when you press the "deploy" button on the control panel). The "blue box" advisory on <G19> states that "Energy for vertical movement may not be stored in the MINIBOT before DEPLOYMENT". It provides an exception for "incidental kinetic energy stored in the motors or wheels, but NOT, for example, in a flywheel". Nearly two weeks ago, I posted a question on Q&A asking whether the self-generated horizontal kinetic energy in a minibot prior "DEPLOYMENT" would be considered "incidental" (therefore legal) or "stored" (therefore illegal). Clearly, the minibot benefits from it. We were considering this approach and were trying to get clarity before the Championship. My question was not answered.

There is another Q&A topic regarding this issue. The response has been interpreted as an approval of ramp-style deployment, but the question is conditioned on "after deploying the minibot" and the answer also includes the phrase "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Perhaps we understand deployment differently.

[jspatz1]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

I am not convinced that this is legal.

I understand that your minibot provides all the energy for vertical movement - no energy comes from the hostbot. However, there is more to Rule <G19> than just where the energy comes from. It also requires all such energy to be
provided "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Section 1.6 of the game manual defines the start of DEPLOYMENT as the moment at which the minibot first crosses the vertical projection of the tower base (not when the clock reaches 10 seconds, and not when you press the "deploy" button on the control panel). The "blue box" advisory on <G19> states that "Energy for vertical movement may not be stored in the MINIBOT before DEPLOYMENT". It provides an exception for "incidental kinetic energy stored in the motors or wheels, but NOT, for example, in a flywheel". Nearly two weeks ago, I posted a question on Q&A asking whether the self-generated horizontal kinetic energy in a minibot prior "DEPLOYMENT" would be considered "incidental" (therefore legal) or "stored" (therefore illegal). Clearly, the minibot benefits from it. We were considering this approach and were trying to get clarity before the Championship. My question was not answered.

There is another Q&A topic regarding this issue. The response has been interpreted as an approval of ramp-style deployment, but the question is conditioned on "after deploying the minibot" and the answer also includes the phrase "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Perhaps we understand deployment differently.

The GDC as repeatedly told us to look to the "spirit of the rule" when splitting hairs and parsing language in situations such as this. It is clearly the intent of the deployment rules that the minibot's climb not be aided by any external or stored energy source other than from its own motors. Having the minibot self-deploy using its own motors is not only in keeping with this intent, but goes even beyond it, in that it does not even use external energy to perform the act of horizontal deployment, as every other FRC robot does and is allowed to do. The rotation of the motor shafts and rollers "prior" to deployment are exactly the incidental kinetic energy the GDC has ruled as allowable. The horizontal motion gained is no different than the horizontal motion gained by every other deployment method, and is even more conservative in that it uses no external device.

[skimoose]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

I am not convinced that this is legal.

I understand that your minibot provides all the energy for vertical movement - no energy comes from the hostbot. However, there is more to Rule <G19> than just where the energy comes from. It also requires all such energy to be
provided "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Section 1.6 of the game manual defines the start of DEPLOYMENT as the moment at which the minibot first crosses the vertical projection of the tower base (not when the clock reaches 10 seconds, and not when you press the "deploy" button on the control panel). The "blue box" advisory on <G19> states that "Energy for vertical movement may not be stored in the MINIBOT before DEPLOYMENT". It provides an exception for "incidental kinetic energy stored in the motors or wheels, but NOT, for example, in a flywheel". Nearly two weeks ago, I posted a question on Q&A asking whether the self-generated horizontal kinetic energy in a minibot prior "DEPLOYMENT" would be considered "incidental" (therefore legal) or "stored" (therefore illegal). Clearly, the minibot benefits from it. We were considering this approach and were trying to get clarity before the Championship. My question was not answered.

There is another Q&A topic regarding this issue. The response has been interpreted as an approval of ramp-style deployment, but the question is conditioned on "after deploying the minibot" and the answer also includes the phrase "after the start of DEPLOYMENT". Perhaps we understand deployment differently.

Our deployment is legal and follows designs already used at several regionals. The minibot has no stored energy other than the battery. The ramp imparts no energy prior to, during, or after the start of deployment. The only benefit to the ramp is that the minibot is allowed to accelerate without the need to overcome gravity immediately. More importantly, after numerous prototype designs, we feel it is one of the most reliable ways to deploy the minibot as it is already in contact with the pole via the ramp extension.