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  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-04-2011, 12:30
Mark Koors Mark Koors is offline
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

I have a request. Can the inspectors urge teams to make their robot radios visible. It is a lot easier to diagnose connection problems on the field if the lights on the radio are visible. It can make the difference in maintaining match timing.

Mark
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Unread 20-04-2011, 12:43
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Having volunteered both as an LRI and an FTA, I can really appreciate Mark's concern above. Field volunteers will be doing their best to maintain a quick (~6 minute) match pace, and every second spent diagnosing non-communicative robots will cut into that goal.
--------
The excerpt below is from Championship Information A-Z (p. 11)
Quote:
Please note: Practice fields will NOT be open on Wednesday because we want teams focused solely on getting their robots inspected.

Practice Matches

Schedule: The Practice Rounds will run 9:00am-12:00pm Thursday on the fields. Please pay attention to FIRST’s Championship website to look for the latest scheduling. The schedule can change. Teams MUST have visited the WPA table and have a valid inspection sticker on their robot to be allowed on the playing field, even during Practice Day.

Filler Line: Although teams may not switch practice times, there will be a “Filler Line,”limited to six robots at most, at each division field. Teams from the Filler Line will be used on a first come, first served basis to fill empty spots in practice matches left by teams that do not show up for their practice match. Criteria for joining the filler line are: Only teams that have passed full inspection may join the Filler Line
(emphasis mine)

How will a team get a valid inspection sticker on their robot? If the only way to get the "valid" sticker is by passing full robot inspection, then it appears that teams must complete robot inspection before they can participate in practice matches. Or, will robot inspectors be putting "valid" inspection stickers on robots that have been partially inspected, and are deemed safe enough for practice matches?
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Last edited by Richard Wallace : 20-04-2011 at 13:05.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 12:54
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

From the Robot Inspection Checklist on the FIRST website:


Quote:
Robot Radio – the wireless adapter must be powered via the KOP +5 volt power convertor which must be powered by the
dedicated +12 volt connector on the PD. Radio must be mounted so that it’s LEDs are visible<R38.B & R53>
Emphasis mine

So if the teams run through their own inspection, and inspectors follow the checklist, we should be good.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 13:18
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard View Post
How will a team get a valid inspection sticker on their robot? If the only way to get the "valid" sticker is by passing full robot inspection, then it appears that teams must complete robot inspection before they can participate in practice matches. Or, will robot inspectors be putting "valid" inspection stickers on robots that have been partially inspected, and are deemed safe enough for practice matches?
I think the Filler Line is copied and pasted from regional events, but the Championship rules were changed to require full inspection before even practice matches.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 14:28
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Please note that the A-Z guide is not the game manual... can anyone point to some place in the game manual that states you have to be inspected before playing practice rounds at Championships?

For the Regionals, it seems that this is governed by <T03>:
Quote:
A TEAM will only be allowed to participate in a MATCH and receive qualification, ranking, and Coopertition points only if it has passed inspection. If it is learned after the start of the MATCH that a TEAM did not pass inspection, the TEAM’s entire ALLIANCE will receive a RED CARD for that MATCH.
You can play practice matches without being fully inspected because you don't receive qualification, ranking, or Coopertition points for those matches. Likewise, you can't play qualification matches without being inspected for the same reason - you earn those points in qualification matches.

Section 5.6 clearly states:
Quote:
For the 2011 FRC Championship, TEAMS will be split into four divisions. Each division will play exactly like a Regional Event and produce the Division Champions. Those four ALLIANCES will then proceed to the Championship Playoffs to determine the 2011 FRC Champions.
(emphasis mine)

Wouldn't that apply to inspections and practice/qualification round eligibility?

I know some Regionals have had confusion over whether or not teams could play practice rounds without being fully inspected (in fact, I've heard it announced by the pit admin myslef)... If at all possible, we should try to avoid that same confusion and make sure it's perfectly clear whether or not we need to be inspected before taking the field for next Thursday's practice matches.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 15:23
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

I'm thinking the statement that each division plays 'exactly' like a regional only applies to the portions that are relevant to the competition. The practice matches are not part of the formal regional competition. With the number of teams requiring inspection, there really does need to be an emphasis on getting inspections done as soon as possible so that all bots and mini-bots can be inspected before qualifications begin. Obviously there are many aspects of regionals and CMP divisions that are different, outside of the formal competition aspects, practice matches would be one of those. Other examples would be queuing logistics, whether mascots are allowed near the field, time allowed for sensor calibration, etc.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 15:23
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Although there are several rules relating inspections, this one from "At the Events" is the one I believe takes precedence in practice matches...

Teams may practice on the first day of the event without completing the inspection process; however, if field personnel deem a robot unsafe, it will not be allowed to practice until the unsafe condition is fixed;

Field personnel will be able to contact inspection areas in each division, inspectors will walk the pit when not otherwise occupied and LRIs will make spot checks both in the pit and on the field during the weekend. Do not be afraid if you see a black vest checking over your robot. We like to see new ideas as much as the next mentor. However, often we are reassuring a ref that something on your robot is in fact in compliance. We do that all the time.

Also, one of us may tell you to take care of a drooping bumper skirt or loose bumper hardware or that we noticed something else. We want you to play as long as you can and that is why we are watching. You don't want to be DQ'd for something that we can have you fix before it becomes an issue.
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Unread 20-04-2011, 16:09
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
Although there are several rules relating inspections, this one from "At the Events" is the one I believe takes precedence in practice matches...

Teams may practice on the first day of the event without completing the inspection process; however, if field personnel deem a robot unsafe, it will not be allowed to practice until the unsafe condition is fixed;
For reference, the passage that Al quoted above is from the Manual, section 4.9.4 Inspection.

Section 4 of the Manual is a summary of what to expect At the Events:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Section 4 At the Events, Rev C
4.1 OVERVIEW
This section provides a general summary regarding safety, mascots/uniforms, recommended items and equipment for teams to bring. You will also find information about pit rules, generic event schedules, robot inspections, replacement parts and competition manners. The following section provides a "feel" for competition schedules, event check in procedures, practice times and matches. Please familiarize your team with this overview so all team members know what to expect and will understand the routine and the rules.
One of my personal favorites in Section 4 is this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4.5 Staff/Volunteer Badges
At events, staff and volunteers will wear distinguishing badges. Should your team members or mentors have questions or a problem, staff and volunteers will help you find the answer (especially your friendly Pit Admin staff!).
(emphasis mine)
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Unread 21-04-2011, 07:38
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Thanks, Rich. That last quote reminded me that LRIs from regional events can be wearing their black vests and hopefully all inspectors will have an identifying hat as you remember from regionals. I will be wearing mine if I remember them.
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Unread 21-04-2011, 19:16
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

I have also been asked to remind teams that are shipping from Bag and Tag events (Bag in Crate for Champs) that B&T rules still apply. Teams have been told they will not be able to unbag their robots until an inspector has approved their Robot Lock-Up Form. Getting these teams signed off will be inspectors top priority at pit open on Wednesday. Teams cannot work on their robot until the paperwork is complete and an inspector has given the authorization to open the bag. A B&T list will be in the LRIs hands soon for use next week.
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Unread 21-04-2011, 22:20
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz View Post
I have also been asked to remind teams that are shipping from Bag and Tag events (Bag in Crate for Champs) that B&T rules still apply. Teams have been told they will not be able to unbag their robots until an inspector has approved their Robot Lock-Up Form. Getting these teams signed off will be inspectors top priority at pit open on Wednesday. Teams cannot work on their robot until the paperwork is complete and an inspector has given the authorization to open the bag. A B&T list will be in the LRIs hands soon for use next week.
Thanks for this note AL. It is good to know that inspectors will have this as a priority. As a B&T team with important work to do on our robot, we will be very anxious to get a visit from an inspector as soon as possible.
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Unread 22-04-2011, 00:03
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Al,

At last year's Championships, I was doing spot inspections on the field to make sure all cables were attached, driver stations were booted, etc. to keep things running on the field. I found one team using a spare battery plugged into their robot in order to charge their pneumatics without pulling power from their competition battery which was already installed on the robot. I objected to this on the grounds that it violates the spirit of the rule which says all power must come from ONE battery. Other inspectors disagreed, saying it was a good practice to extend the on-board battery.

How would you call this one?

Dr. Bob
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Unread 22-04-2011, 06:32
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

<R35> Items specifically prohibited from use on the ROBOT include:

A. any battery other than, or in addition to, the one primary battery permitted by Rule <R34> the MINIBOT battery, or a battery contained in a COTS computing device

I'm not sure if this rule would apply to a team using an external battery to maintain their pneumatics.
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Unread 22-04-2011, 07:56
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired Starman View Post
Al,

At last year's Championships, I was doing spot inspections on the field to make sure all cables were attached, driver stations were booted, etc. to keep things running on the field. I found one team using a spare battery plugged into their robot in order to charge their pneumatics without pulling power from their competition battery which was already installed on the robot. I objected to this on the grounds that it violates the spirit of the rule which says all power must come from ONE battery. Other inspectors disagreed, saying it was a good practice to extend the on-board battery.

How would you call this one?

Dr. Bob
We talked about this before in this thread. I had the same thoughts you did. I don't think we resolved the issue and Q&A never got back to me.
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Unread 22-04-2011, 08:00
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Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread

Bob,
There is no rule that prevents a team from charging pneumatics off the field at this time. I oppose it as an unsafe practice knowing that many teams deploy software while in queue. The chance for a unexpected pneumatic operation while in queue can be disastrous for one of our participants. I know that some venues have imposed some restrictions but there is no universal rule covering this. I would prefer to go with Wayne's quoted rule above and it is the basis for the rules governing 'off board' compressors.
That being said, I believe the use of a second battery pushes the intent of the one battery rule. If the battery is used without Crio control of pneumatics then that is a violation of several rules and an unsafe practice.
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