BB: I'm tired already

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Bill says it best.
To all those who think the concert is a bad idea, what greater way to get the message out about FIRST, than to have Wii.I.Am lead the way.

This is about the smartest thing FIRST has ever done at CMP, despite the issues.

1. How many students' lives will be changed forever by seeing Will.i.am perform? (In person or on TV)

2. How many students' lives would be (and have been) changed forever by seeing/driving/cheering on the machine that they spent nearly 4 months designing, building, and perfecting perform on an actual NFL field in front of thousands of onlookers?

If one single student is robbed of #2 because of #1, then FIRST has its priorities inverted.

(Yes I know that every team will get the chance to be in the dome at some point, but not every team runs the same drive crew or has an ideal robot performance every match)

[OZ_341]

I know that FIRST is saying that there is limited but available seating, but if even one kid misses this concert because they don't have enough tickets then its a double insult to that child.

Picture being a kid on a large team that misses the chance to experience the Dome fully and then has to "sit out" because there are not enough tickets. This aspect is not thought out with every child in mind.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by Jared341

1. How many students' lives will be changed forever by seeing Will.i.am perform? (In person or on TV)

2. How many students' lives would be (and have been) changed forever by seeing/driving/cheering on the machine that they spent nearly 4 months designing, building, and perfecting perform on an actual NFL field in front of thousands of onlookers?

If one single student is robbed of #2 because of #1, then FIRST has its priorities inverted.

(Yes I know that every team will get the chance to be in the dome at some point, but not every team runs the same drive crew or has an ideal robot performance every match)

I would have to respectfully disagree with this.

I believe that the answer to #1 may be much larger than you think, when will.i.am's draw leads people to see what FRC is about and join a FIRST team.

FIRST's mission and vision is about inspiring all (not just FIRST'ers) about science and technology.

Realize also that by doing this, you and your team/robot may well be on a nationally televised event that will have many more viewers by virtue of Will.i.am's involvement. So while you may get less exposure in the dome, you may get more exposure to the public at large.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I would have to respectfully disagree with this.

I believe that the answer to #1 may be much larger than you think, when will.i.am's draw leads people to see what FRC is about and join a FIRST team.

FIRST's mission and vision is about inspiring all (not just FIRST'ers) about science and technology.

Realize also that by doing this, you and your team/robot may well be on a nationally televised event that will have many more viewers by virtue of Will.i.am's involvement. So while you may get less exposure in the dome, you may get more exposure to the public at large.

I certainly hope you are right. A lot depends on the details of the execution of the television event. Even if done right, I still do have issues with the implementation, and the effect it has on the teams who are competiting.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I believe that the answer to #1 may be much larger than you think, when will.i.am's draw leads people to see what FRC is about and join a FIRST team.

That would be nice, except that literally can't happen, since the public is not welcome for the performance.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

That would be nice, except that literally can't happen, since the public is not welcome for the performance.

The release from FIRST mentioned the production of a TV special, that would expose more people to the performance and then the competition and organization than opening the performance to the public would.

It is important to remember that celebrities are not just performers any more, they are also activists. Getting Will-I-Am and the Black-eyed Peas to nationals to put on a performance which is not just entertainment but also FIRST marketing it will expose and possibly (hopefully) attract more people to FIRST; at the same time it is exposing celebrities to a cause that could use their backing.

I have seen quite a few posters complain over the last couple of days about how FIRST is a robotics competition and in this case it is taking a back seat to a concert. Those same posters (some of the most respected on CD) would be quick to remind you other days that FIRST is not about the Robotics Competition, it is about the Inspiration. I want you to think about whether it is possible FIRST discussed this, knows what they are doing and are using this concert for the inspiration and recognition of science and technology.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

I believe that the answer to #1 may be much larger than you think, when will.i.am's draw leads people to see what FRC is about and join a FIRST team.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

That would be nice, except that literally can't happen, since the public is not welcome for the performance.

And since the event wasn't officially announced until so late (some teams were already traveling!), there's no way for it to have brought anyone to FRC anyway. If FIRST can promise an encore next year, it might entice some students, I guess.

[Matt Krass]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

The release from FIRST mentioned the production of a TV special, that would expose more people to the performance and then the competition and organization than opening the performance to the public would.

As long as I can remember people have been getting saucer eyes about FIRST TV specials and the like, and I can say, it usually doesn't happen, and a lot of resources go in to those attempts. I think this is another ill-advised attempt at grabbing fleeting popularity in place of the true mission of FIRST. Who cares if we get a TV special out of this? It's not going to be "Look how this great program changes the world, you should join it" its going to be "Look, a concert, and there happens to be robots or something in the background!".

FIRST used to be about celebrating science and engineering, and not football players and rock stars, and while its not about the robot, its also not about seeing how much weight a rock star can toss around. Instead of trying to show kids that engineering can be a great lifestyle and fun and good for all, they're just trying to show them "go for engineering and maybe you can hang out with a rock star".

FIRST is compromising ideals left and right in the name of greater exposure, but what good is the exposure with the compromised ideals? There is a such a thing as too much growth. FIRST seemed to be having a pretty profound impact in the past, at a much smaller scale, and it seemed a lot more effective the diluted popularity contest we're heading for.

Sorry, but I'm extremely disappointed in the leadership at FIRST this year, I think they lost sight of some very important things.

I don't remember the exact quote, or the exact year, I think it was Woodie in 2006 at Kickoff, and it was something along the lines of:

'Thousands of brain-hours are going to be spent in the next six weeks, and I doubt many, if any of them will be spent wondering what Paris Hilton is doing' --Woodie(ish)

What happened to that program? I liked that one.

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I have seen quite a few posters complain over the last couple of days about how FIRST is a robotics competition and in this case it is taking a back seat to a concert. Those same posters (some of the most respected on CD) would be quick to remind you other days that FIRST is not about the Robotics Competition, it is about the Inspiration. I want you to think about whether it is possible FIRST discussed this, knows what they are doing and are using this concert for the inspiration and recognition of science and technology.

There is nothing inspiring about conforming to what society has deemed "popular". It's just pathetic. Instead of forging our own path, we're told we should ride the coattails of those deemed "popular" for the sake of ease, and hope we get to accomplish something along the way. There is no recognition for the hard work of scientists and engineers when we trivialize them in this manner. Nothing about this is inspiring or recognizing.

I know I'm going to get it for this, but I feel how I feel,
Matt

[JaneYoung]

There are events that have galas that precede them. They bring in VIPs, potential sponsors, people who can help sustain or promote the event or cause. The ones that I'm familiar with are separate from the actual event, itself.

This Championship event has rolled everything in together - the competitions, entertainment, and the potential to maximize that entertainment with specials. Perhaps the push back from some of us wouldn't be so hard if it were separated. With the magical editing features available to those who work in film and media, mashing a gala event with the Championship event wouldn't be that difficult. If huge entertainment events continue to be mashed with the competitions during the same time frame and using the same real estate, then we will continue to deal with compromise and with making difficult choices for the teams.

One of our students is there for today and tomorrow only - and the thing that she has been excited about was the opportunity to talk with folks at the MIT table about the opportunities that MIT offers and what the campus is like. She is seeing and doing a lot at the Championship event in St. Louis but that is a biggie for her. It makes me happy.

Jane

[AndyH]

Matt - I agree completely, and you said it quite well. Thank you.

The focus has changed, and it's no longer what we signed up for. I realize that in the greater scheme, it may not be a big deal for FIRST to lose one team here and there. For us though, and for our kids, it's quite disappointing.

[rsisk]

I have to tell you based on first hand experience, this championship has been epic. The issues with the pit fields can be fixed, more bleacher space, some noise control measures and most issues are fixed.

From my perspective, it's been pretty exciting have part of the competition right there where the teams are. It's exciting to be able to go back and forth between the teams and games with no effort. The fields bring a lot of energy and excitement into the pits. I think you get some real good synergy with all three environments, pit field, pit, dome field.

The concert last night was also pretty epic. The BEP put on a good concert and when this airs Aug 14th on ABC, there are going to be a lot of people who get their first taste of FIRST, they are going to see students honored for the Dean's List, they are going to see students honored for Chairman's, they are going to see some sweet looking robots on stage with the BEP.

It's like a twilight zone episode where two universes briefly intersect and one world gets a glimpse into another world where science and technology are real and accessible.

I think the 2011 FIRST World Championship will be one of those years we look back to where a change was made to move this organization up a level and open a new frontier for growth of one of the great inventions of the 21st century.

[Leav]

Originally Posted by rsisk

...

I think the 2011 FIRST World Championship will be one of those years we look back to where a change was made to move this organization up a level and open a new frontier for growth of one of the great inventions of the 21st century.

from those who weren't there: Thanks for the info on this. I agree that this might be a really big boost for FIRST.

I got my first taste of FIRST from a story on one of TechTV's shows, while that channel was briefly available in Israel. It got me hooked on first and paved the way for a B.Sc and an M.Sc in Mechanical Engineering.

Don't underestimate the power of the media to achieve FIRST's goals, and don't underestimate FIRST HQ's drive to achieve those goals.

[gunsanbob]

???

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Jared341

1. How many students' lives will be changed forever by seeing Will.i.am perform? (In person or on TV)

2. How many students' lives would be (and have been) changed forever by seeing/driving/cheering on the machine that they spent nearly 4 months designing, building, and perfecting perform on an actual NFL field in front of thousands of onlookers?

If one single student is robbed of #2 because of #1, then FIRST has its priorities inverted.

(Yes I know that every team will get the chance to be in the dome at some point, but not every team runs the same drive crew or has an ideal robot performance every match)

Jared,
No doubt, it's an inconvenience to a large degree for all participants, including us. But I'm sure FIRST would have preferred to avoid the situation if they could have, with discussions on how to best meet the needs of teams and run as smooth as a tournament despite the challenges.

I'm referring to the fact that FIRST will NEVER compete with mainstream music stars, movie stars, and sports figures. As Dean mentions over and over again, it's not what's celebrated in our culture, or even the world.
I see this as a clever way to get the word out to those that matter to our culture.