2011 Lesson Learned: The Negative

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by slijin

On a side note, I saw at least 2 instances of towers being triggered by bots crashing into them, leaving VERY close minibot races up to human judgment, which imho, cannot be empirically accurate nor reliable in a race between 1-2s minibots. Putting light compression springs on the suspension bolts would have been a very simple fix to that issue, even if it was a slight modification to field design.

On a related note, I saw several issues of towers failing to trigger. We failed to trip the sensor on one of the Curie-field towers, and our scouts say that tower failed to register at least one more hit, from 1718 (and that's only one tower, on one day)


More issues:
Seating (already discussed)

Aside from the seating issues on the pit fields, I though the event ran very well.

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Crowded bleachers on the pit fields. Could be helped by taller bleachers with more rows. And teams not saving seats. Heard of some very poor behavior by teams I had higher expectations of.

On a related note, there were some people who did not clear the pits during Opening Ceremonies, despite being asked to do so multiple times. The FTA on Galileo was not happy when a few kids kept coming back to the stands a few minutes after he had just asked them to leave, and those kids were from a very reputable team. The best way to describe their attitudes was "teenage punk".

There were also several teams that returned to the pit early, though I can understand that a bit more if they were in the first match of the day, since apparently those teams didn't have a lot of time to get to the fields.

Edit: I just realized that the post above me also starts with "On a related note". Oh, the little things in life...

[Aren_Hill]

We were asked to clear the pits friday morning for opening ceremonies, to which i responded by pulling out a manual and having a civil discussion with the volunteer regarding the actual rules pertaining to said events.

In the "At the events" section of the manual

4.10.1 All Teams Should Attend
We encourage all team members to attend the ceremonies, on time, to show appreciation for the event and those people involved who are volunteering their time and efforts.

4.10.2 Pit Manners/Rules During the Ceremonies
- Team members will not be allowed to use power tools, hammers or other noisy tools during the ceremonies.
- All persons in the Pit should observe the code of behavior for the presentation of all national anthems:
o Maintain a respectful silence;
o Stand, facing the flag. If there is no flag, look toward the video screen showing a flag; and
o ALL hats off please.

The volunteer then took the manual back to his superior and returned to us informing us we would be allowed to stay as long as we followed the listed rules, which we did.

This same situation happened in Wisconsin only I wasn't as well versed on that section of the manual, lesson learned.

At no point does it say "empty the pits" or "only two people" or half the other things being told to teams, and this goes for every event.

I thoroughly thanked the volunteer for participating in a healthy discussion and taking to correct course of action, which is more than can be said for some other encounters we've had this season.

If my robot is operating 100%, I'll be at the ceremonies, if it is not then it has my attention until it is. This is how I believe it should stay as it is disrespectful to a team who has put in countless hours constructing it to not allow allotted(1) time to make sure it is working properly.

(1) The champs agenda says Pits open at 7:15am and close at 8pm, I count this as allotted pit time

This was more of a positive at champs, but is in response to a post here.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Including 1676. I had to chastize some of the well-intentioned parents on our team TWICE to stop saving seats in the bleachers.

If you don't have a butt to fill that seat, you don't need it. When the butt arrives, we'll make room.

It seems to me that parents are more or less the problem.
They are very aggressive about protecting the interests of their own team instead of the values of FIRST,
My team was denied a place to sit twice by two different teams. I told them just take them off your list (ironically one we ended up working with in the elims and the other was never on our list in the first place).
Apparently FIRST has some sort of Poor Behaviour Reporting Forum to turn in when these things happen. So what is a civillian supposed to do when they show up and are rejected and ejected by an overzealous and territorial team? Maybe Dean needs to make nipping this behavior in the bud homework for the teams.

[Taylor]

1. Seating in the pits. There was nowhere to eat in the pits except for to sit on the floor. If you don't want food in the pits, I understand that - but don't put vendors there!

2. Severe lack of trash receptacles in the pits. I'm surprised the pits were as clean as they were, given the minimal trash can situation (and the fact that these cans were always full anyway)

[rotolomi]

Overall in my opinion, well executed for the first year. But, of course, there were negatives.

- The bleachers in the pits. I had several problems with them. I didn't care so much that they were right next to the pits (in my opinion the short distance was very convenient). The small bleachers left a lot of people standing in the way in the pits trying to see matches. The bleachers were very uncomfortable and made my already bad back miserable (but not much can be done about that, I've never sat on comfortable bleachers...). There was so much garbage that gathered beneath the bleachers because everything kept falling through them. My jacket dropped 3 times as did my wallet and my GameBoy (unless my GameBoy was stolen).
- The long walk from the Dome to the pits. It was annoying to have to walk what felt like half a mile to get to the pits. Also, the Dome was a bit confusing to get around in - but that could also be just me.
- Safety glasses were required to get to the stands in the pits. Quite a few members of my team were left stranded, not allowed into the stands, because they did not have their safety glasses on them and you had to cross the pits to get to the stands. I know that there were safety glasses that could be borrowed, but it was a minor inconvenience to have to turn around and get your safety glasses if you wanted to leave the stands.
- The food. Maybe I just don't look in the right places but the food (including boxed lunches/dinners) was, as usual, overpriced and gross. All the food that I saw in the pits and in the area outside the pits was either unhealthy (cough cough, funnel cakes) or gross (did anyone else make the mistake of buying the Chinese food?) and all of it was overpriced. Apparently the food in the Dome was good, but the Newton division was in the pits for 2/3 of the competition and the Dome was a very long walk (see my 2nd bullet).
- Lack of trash cans. You had to walk across the pits to throw something away, and there were no trash cans in the stands, so garbage accumulated quickly.
- Power. My team used a boat battery for power because we scout with our laptops and there was no power available in the stands.

So only a few minor issues that have been more or less discussed already, but overall a good, fun competition

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by slijin

Field issues. I observed at least 2 major FMS problems during StL. Following opening ceremonies Friday, I stopped in front of the Curie field to watch the first match of the day. 5 seconds into teleop, the buzzer blares and the timer goes to 0, ending the match.

During our first elimination match, the field timer apparently jumped from 16 to 6 seconds or something of the sort, resulting in the refs nullifying that match result.

Needless to say, I was sorely disappointed by the persistence of such an issue into the Championships.

On a side note, I saw at least 2 instances of towers being triggered by bots crashing into them, leaving VERY close minibot races up to human judgment, which imho, cannot be empirically accurate nor reliable in a race between 1-2s minibots. Putting light compression springs on the suspension bolts would have been a very simple fix to that issue, even if it was a slight modification to field design.

Those were not field issues. The field crew has a method of testing the fields that involves running a 'fast' auton that is only 5 seconds. They accidentally left that setup in and tried to run matches (several times). Oops!

[torihoelscher]

Originally Posted by rocknthehawk

Curie was packed, and the bleachers appeared to be smaller.

In Newton it was insane. Very nice people and also so not very nice people...but it happens. Had a lot of fun none the less!!

[Jared Russell]

THE CHAMPIONSHIP:

1. Putting FRC fields in the pits in order to showcase FTC. Just a horrible idea. Maybe work on making FTC into a competitive and cost-effective product instead of relegating your premier program to cramped bleachers.

2. There were still issues with things like minibot poles and field timer displays.

3. The fields in the domes (at least Galileo/Newton) were too close to the seats - those higher up had a poor view angle of the near side of the field.

4. The Saturday night boxed dinner was readily available, but of extremely poor quality (IMO).

5. They may as well have put the Hall of Fame in the basement, seeing how remote it was from anything else FRC.

6. The Chairman's Award presentation was inferior to the old format. We never even got to see their video!

7. All in all, I loved the venue. But to nitpick, it seemed like there were far fewer men's rooms for such a venue than one would have expected, and too few stalls in each.

EVERYTHING ELSE:

1. The game's primary challenge was one that we had already done recently, leading to a ton of 2007 clone robots.

2. 1:50 teleop + 0:15 autonomous gameplay with a 120 lb. robot could be nullified by 2 seconds of gameplay with a 2.5 lb. robot. The end game was worth way, way, way too much.

3. BaneBots. Their motors were case shorted. Their gearboxes were unavailable and of inferior quality to the options available for other motors.

4. The constant patching of rules through team updates to try and remove defense from the game. The end result was rules with a lot of gray, and referees having to infer the intent of the robots on the field in order to hand out red cards. Interpretation varied WILDLY from event to event. What was a red card at the Philadelphia Regional was a 3 point penalty on Einstein. This NEEDS to be fixed.

5. The season of the over-inflated innertube. FIRST provided little guidance on the proper use of the jig inflation guide, and as a result, I witnessed enormous tubes being forced into the jig.

[thefro526]

The Game:

1) The scoring potential of the minibot was too high compared to the amount of time through the match that they were usable.

2) Diminishing returns for scoring tubes really lead to some boring matches at the highest level. "Why waste 15 seconds to score another tube and get 4 points when I can align for the mini-bot early to ensure I get 30 or 20 points" was a common discussion that took place.

3) The rules need to be written in such a way that they can be uniformly called from one event to the next. Each regional seemed to play by it's own rulebook, even though it was a derivative of the official rulebook, and the same can be said for the Championship Divisions.

4) There should never be more than one or two red card-able offenses in a game. There were numerous red cards called throughout high level play, most of which seemed to be results of accidents, and not intentional actions.

5) The seeding system seems to be failing as the overall quality of teams increases. In retrospect, the 2010 system seemed to work better, allowing a team to lose a match or two and still seed well. I noticed that because many good teams played other good teams, many of them slipped as they lost to another team of similar caliber if the other team had better partners.

The Championship:

1) Seating on the Pit Fields - the pit fields in themselves weren't THAT bad, but if FIRST choses to continue on with those fields, then they need to increase the seating by at least a 3rd, if not more. FIRST also needs to find a way to enforce the "No saving seats rule" though thankfully, many teams were willing to give up any extra seats for a match or two when I wanted to sit and watch.

2) HOF location, people have hit on it before. It was hard to find, and didn't really feel like the HOF.

3) Lack of trash cans. Maybe I didn't look hard enough, but it was pretty difficult to find a trashcan in the pits when I needed to. This may have contributed to the litter problems.

[Bryan Herbst]

Did anyone else notice that the floor in the stadium stands was incredibly sticky nearly everywhere?

Not sure if this was us spilling pop everywhere the first few days (it probably was), but when I arrived on Friday, this was definitely one of the things I noticed. Can we not keep a handle on our beverages?

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Tanis

Did anyone else notice that the floor in the stadium stands was incredibly sticky nearly everywhere?

Not sure if this was us spilling pop everywhere the first few days (it probably was), but when I arrived on Friday, this was definitely one of the things I noticed. Can we not keep a handle on our beverages?

I believe it was a chemical or something they put down. It saved several people from falling down the stairs in the nosebleeds and one that almost ended up in a kid falling over the railing! It isn't sticky when you touch it.

[RoboMom]

The Championship
1. I got an earful of stories re: teams who should know better and disgraceful treatment of volunteers and other teams. This includes stories about behaviors in the stands (with lack of adequate seating) and treatment of longtime volunteers in important jobs like queuing. Really? I don't care how highly ranked you are if your team acts like jerks.

2. Communications. I apologize to the approximately 100 people who politely inquired at the official info booth about opening ceremonies and were told that ceremonies would also be broadcast in the pits and they could watch from there. Since I was training the St. Louis convention bureau people I made sure to get this information from a very reliable source. So something happened somewhere.

3. There needs to be a designated lane to the bleachers in the pits to avoid wearing safety glasses. This issue caused lots of unnecessary angst and confusion.

4. I apologize to the person I grabbed by the back of the shirt to prevent them from walking into a shot we were trying to film for the big screen interviewing volunteers. They had every right to yell at me. It is never appropriate to touch a volunteer without their permission and I regretted it immediately. It was a knee jerk reaction.

5. There needs to be a guide accompanying the maps. Another way to locate what you are looking for on the map. For example: "Boy Scouts of America" and you would see coordinates on a pit map like "E-9" or have a room listed. I spent hours trying to collect information on where everything was. Many of the published lists show times but not locations. This was a very confusing venue for the public. I missed the web hug because I was trying to help someone locate someplace.

6. Trash cans. Recycling, including a way to recycle all those plastic containers provided for all the box lunches and dinners. Lightbulbs aren't the only way to save the planet.

7. More signage and more concrete signage to help people navigate.

8. A real lost and found available for all the activities. Not just in the pits.

[rocpe]

For us, FIRST Championship was an extremely positive experience. We had a blast and look forward to returning in the future. But as long as you asked:
1. The Curie Bleacher situation was wholly inadequate during the qualification rounds and worse for eliminations. Significantly more seating is necessary.
2. There needs to be a path (separate entrance?) to the fields that doesn't require safety glasses. The lines for safety glasses and pit entry could have been reduced and streamlined.
3.Garbage cans would have been nice. What was that sticky stuff on the floor in the dome?
4.Sound system needs improvement and should be checked/tested periodically. Announcements were made over each other and were generally inaudible. Seating in the dome requires use of the sides. It would have been nice to have the speakers from the side fields on during Einstein and the awards so all could hear. If it weren't for Bill's tweets, we wouldn't have had any idea what was going on.
5.Speeches were way too long particularly before the Finals and Awards.
6. A match should NEVER start if Field Connectivity has not been established and teams indicate that they are not ready. We and our playing partners work too hard to get to this point to have a field issue leave us for dead. And unfortunately, it was not an isolated instance.
7.Five minutes spent with each team is under 30 hours in total. Everybody here deserves some time in the sun with FIRST brass. I know it's tough, but it's necessary.
8.How about some readable maps and a schedule being available early to allow for some team planning to enhance the overall experience. Not knowing where things are and when they run is a problem.

[JesseK]

The game:
We had A LOT of discussion about the extent of the minibot's design freedoms this year. There appeared to be conflicting information coming from FIRST (at kickoff) regarding intent with the minibot (showcase FTC) and what actually happened through interpretation of the rules (feed PITSCO money for all of the motors teams bought). It seems to me that if we could have figured out the true manufacturer of the motors, we could have saved ourselves a LOT of money. I'm referring to 2,000 teams overall, not simply my team.

The Championship:
I have no problem listening to a 24:55 speech from Dean Kamen. I DO have a problem listening to a 24:55 blurb of reverberating mumbling with an occasional discernible word here and there. The speakers for the sides of the Einstein field, after the curve of the stadium corners, were TERRIBLE. As a side note, Mr. Lavery should speak a little slower to mitigate the effect of his resonance. I understood him clearly during the mentor breakfast, but I couldn't make out a single thing he said during the closing ceremonies.

This next one is a bit of a rant, but I feel we need get further visibility into these types of things...
A lone Volunteer
There are some volunteers who have their priorities totally out of whack and I wish the other volunteers would take notice to it. Who's the person we can go to with legitimate complaints about volunteers? The guy who was responsible for getting teams off the field of the Galileo/Newton field in the Dome was rude to EVERYONE except those he already had relationships with.

• If you needed an extra 2-3 seconds to properly set your robot down on your 4 cart supports, he'd gladly 'assist' you by pushing your robot down, pushing your cart forward, and telling you to 'get outta here'. Ours almost fell off as a result.
• Is your cart misaligned to the two blue bumps that take you over the power cables? Well obviously since you're "young", you can lift your 200-lb robot+cart any which way he wants you to so you can then "get out of here!".
• It's unfortunate that FIRST celebrates its mentors so much, yet there's no avenue for them to bring to FIRST's attention that ONE GUY is undermining it. Did he pull 14-15 hour days at work on Monday/Tuesday just so he could get Wed-Fri off? Did he tote a trailer full of tools for 15+ hours through mountains, and THEN unload everything in the rain on Wednesday? Is he working 12-15 hours at a time on his feet during competition? Did he walk even half of the 74,447 steps that I did during the overall competition?

Scalability
Lastly, I don't understand how the current FIRST model will scale to 150,000 teams that they joked about in their "top 10" list. I'll split this into robot versus business and scale it to something more pragmatic: 2,500 teams.

Within a region, as more teams are founded, the resources of the region will become thinned. Even if we do all we can to bring up the knowledge of teams to the same level, there will be a great disparity in the competition levels of the teams due to levels of funding. With only 1-2 things to do in a game, the teams with MORE funding will ALWAYS be able to trump the teams with less funding since they can afford to purchase more and do EVERYTHING in a game. Such purchases include COTS parts (like pneumatics not included in the free cylinders), expensive aluminum blocks to mill down for specialized/lightweight parts, and relatively expensive materials (honeycombed fiberglass anyone?) that have high strength/weight ratios. Either a class system similar to stock car racing (not NASCAR only, but think about local racing divisions) will have to be implemented OR we need more things to do in a game such that it's nearly impossible for 1 robot to 'do it all'. Otherwise we're really fooling ourselves when we think we're inspiring low-budget teams by continuously steamrolling them on the fields. I'll note that my team is neither 'low-budget' nor did we really get steamrolled by superior robots except for those matches where we shot ourselves in the foot anyways.

Chairman's Award and Engineering Inspiration continue to get diluted each year. Feedback from a judge at a Regional stated that the only differential between us and another team was that the other team had a more memorable presentation. At the championships (and I don't mean to undermine 1629, I know Phil and their program; they definitely deserve their award), the judges were forced into the same exact situation. We did as much as GaCo did for outreach, yet the TWO differentiators were that they got a building, and presentation. Given the amount of politicking that has to be done in some regions to do anything STEM related, comparing some teams is like comparing a red apple to a green apple -- it's totally subjective. As FIRST expands to more regionals, the CA/EI pool becomes more diluted, and we need even more inane differentiators it seems. At what point will it simply become wrong to only recognize TWO teams at a national level for the year? Maybe it made sense when there were 1250 teams & 35 regionals. But what about when FIRST hits 2500 teams and 70 regionals?