FIELDS. YES FIELDS.

[JohnFogarty]

Not that I'm completely opposed to these ideas but now you're making it seem like we should stuff them into a closet.

If there isn't a concert next year....uh has anyone thought we'll go back to the ATL. setup?

I have to ask now...uhm having been to champs for 3 years now....why was there sooooooo much empty space in front of Einstein.... you could park a few mac trucks in there.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by John_1102

Not that I'm completely opposed to these ideas but now you're making it seem like we should stuff them into a closet.

If there isn't a concert next year....uh has anyone thought we'll go back to the ATL. setup?

I have to ask now...uhm having been to champs for 3 years now....why was there sooooooo much empty space in front of Einstein.... you could park a few mac trucks in there.

The Empty space was being used for FLL tables and awards seating for the finals on Einstein. Personally, I thought pushing Einstein back was a good idea, it gave everyone a better view and allowed for more people to sit in the stands since the award winners weren't taking up their usual section or two in the center.

[sgreco]

The problem I see with putting FTC in the stadium, is that it's waste of stands since nobody can tell what's going on from a distance anyway. FRC has the biggest crowds, and therefore should have the stadium. FTC crowds fit in the pits, FRC crowds don't. I think FRC should get all of the fields in the stadium.

[Taylor]

If moving two of the FRC fields to the pits was to drive traffic to the FTC/FLL areas, then why were the FRC fields at the farthest possible distance from the FTC/FLL?
If FRC is married to the idea of separating the FRC fields, then the pit fields should be close to the FLL/FTC areas. The sponsor/college tables could be given prominent locations along the long ingress/egress corridors of the Americas Center and Edward Jones Dome. The HoF pits could be made more prominent. There could be some much-needed tables and chairs added to the periphery of the pits, allowing people a safe, relaxing place to eat. And some trash cans!

[Racer26]

What about moving the HOF teams into the FRC Quiet Area that existed on the route to/from the dome? Would have given them more exposure than stuffing them off in a corner, and IIRC from Atlanta 2010, when HOF was out in that hallway, its not exactly a noisy exhibit.

[Carol]

In hopes of removing some of the emotions and prejudices in this thread, here are some facts and figures (numbers are rounded off - if someone can get exact numbers, go for it):

FRC: 2000 teams (up from 1800 last year). 352 teams attended Championships. Typically 15-40 students per team

FTC: 1700 teams (up from 1100 last year). 128 attended Championships. Typically 10 students per team.

FLL: 17,000 teams (up from 15,000 last year). 81 attended World Festival (their part of the Championships). Typically 10 students per team.

JrFLL: 2200 teams (up from 1400 last year). 29 attended World Festival. Typically 5 students per team.

You all know how FRC selects for championships.

FTC has a qualifier/regional championship system (in most areas) to get to the championships. FTC qualifies the captain of the winning alliance and the Inspire Award winner (similar to Chairman's award). Other slots are selected by a complicated lottery system based on awards.

FLL also has a qualifier/regional championship system. Only the winner of the top award, which is a combination of research and competition points, qualifies. But not all regionals winners go the the World Festival. It rotates, and the other regional winners go to some event at LEGOLand in CA.

JrFLL doesn't really compete, every team gets an award (as is appropriate for that age group). I'm not sure how the teams were selected for the Championship showcase but I suspect local teams were invited.

[KelliV]

Originally Posted by EricH

Nah, just move the fields into the theater in that case.

The theater at America's Center is too small to hold an FTC field, it was made for business uses and has little space for much else, so sadly, that will not work.

However, it was a fantastic place to hold conferences and The Mothers of Invention Forum which I hope returns next year.

[JesseK]

I think that most of us who 'blame' FTC for the pit fields (and minibot crap, tbh) are more appalled that FIRST is willing to sacrifice some of the relationships they've built with mentors (who put in 1,000's hours over the years) on their flagship program in order to ... erm, do something with the big picture. That's the part we can't figure out, and that's the root of the frustration. In the meantime, while FIRST figures out what to tell us, we're stuck with ... major inconveniences ... during both build and competition season. If they'd been more transparent about the 2 pit fields from the start of the season, or long before BEP approached them, then perhaps we'd have had more time to digest it and say "please make sure we have X".

Yet with that said, <puts on flame-resistant suit>

Having been on both the FTC [FTC1885] and FRC [FRC1885] side of things at the Championships, I'm a proponent for keeping FTC in the dome. To make it to the Championships in FTC, as Carol has indicated, you literally have to be THE best. You can't simply tag along at your regionals, you have to SEED high and THEN beat everyone (or get Inspire). Our kids worked their tails off last year to get their bot in top-notch order to compete at the regionals they attended. They deserved to be in the dome 'under the lights' just like the other programs. Bill hints that they'll expand to more fields for FLL/FTC in the dome, which is a good thing holistically IMO.

The pit fields were good, except for the lack of seating. I only witnessed what the elims were like for the pit fields, and it was bad ... very bad ... for the teams and their parents/mentors/supporters. All we can do is hope that it was simply an oversight on FIRST's part, and that they fix the problem. I'm sure they understand they'll have major protests if they don't.

[Bharat Nain]

Without the BEP stage, we could fit 4 fields in the arena along with FTC and FLL. See attached photo.

I'm conflicted as to whether I like 2 fields in the pits or all of them in the arena. On one hand, the walk and time savings in the pit are great. However, it does lose some professionalism/prestige that the arena itself has.

[Racer26]

You can fit TEN FRC fields (50x80) on a little bit more space than a regulation NFL field.

What?

Yes. Guess what's a little bit bigger than a regulation NFL field? A football stadiums floor area!

I don't believe HQ's excuses for a second.

[Vermeulen]

I've never seen the dome, but from Atlanta in 2010, I remember there being huge areas in between the field curtains/curtained off storage. I also remember nobody sitting where the endzones were, and there being space there. I don't know if this was the same as St. Louis, though.

[PaW]

Georgia Dome gigapan picture here. There were some unused spaces...

[RMiller]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

Without the BEP stage, we could fit 4 fields in the arena along with FTC and FLL. See attached photo.

I'm conflicted as to whether I like 2 fields in the pits or all of them in the arena. On one hand, the walk and time savings in the pit are great. However, it does lose some professionalism/prestige that the arena itself has.

The only worry I have with your proposal is the overhead equipment. I don't know that it can work at a diagonal like that as the existing overhead equipment that things are connected to may only be perpendicular/parallel to the field.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Bharat Nain

Without the BEP stage, we could fit 4 fields in the arena along with FTC and FLL. See attached photo.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by 1075guy

You can fit TEN FRC fields (50x80) on a little bit more space than a regulation NFL field.

You can't do it while keeping them from interfering with each other sound-wise. But here's an idea -- assign each pair of fields to a division and alternate matches between them. You can get very high throughput by staging a match on one field while playing on the other.


Even if the whole north third of the stadium floor remains unavailable, there's still room for five FRC fields plus FTC and FLL. Keeping FTC front and center is easy. Just put it where FLL was this year, moving Einstein back a little more to make room, and FLL will fit fine in an adjacent corner. The presentation stage can go in the other corner. It won't have a great view of Einstein from there, but the VIP team seating doesn't have to be on the stage.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Thank you.



You can't do it while keeping them from interfering with each other sound-wise. But here's an idea -- assign each pair of fields to a division and alternate matches between them. You can get very high throughput by staging a match on one field while playing on the other.

This is an interesting idea. Each division has 2 fields, with alternating matches. We know this seriously increases throughput (to 2x or better than that of a single field), so more matches could be played. Divisions could roughly double in size while retaining 4 divisions. You don't have the sound-pollution issues of having 8 divisions in such close proximity, and you could even run an expanded elim bracket on each division to keep the proportions right (run 16 alliances with a set of Eighth-Finals)