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Unread 17-05-2011, 21:39
James Critchley James Critchley is offline
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Every once in while somebody posts an M113 for sale on e-bay. They are quite reasonably priced, agile, configurable (APC, medical evac, command and control, engineer, utility, etc.). And the US government will be disposing of THOUSANDS of them over the next six years. These tracked vehicles are 1960's era skid steer and some (all?) use the differential lever type steering you're looking for... "tank drive".

All modern agile tracked vehicles (military high mobility platforms) use a steering wheel, accelerator, and brake pedals. The newest ones might even start using a joystick. I don't see them going back the two stick design, it's not in any trade studies I've seen anyway.

Have any teams looked at user interface studies on "tank drive"? Our results from an early season test this year showed that independent up-down and left-right (axis 1 and 3) on a PlayStation style Logitech game pad was twice as fast for combined gross and precision movements. Our study involved at least 5 untrained users (users unfamiliar with the platform, not unfamiliar with various control methods) and the results were consistently half the time, even for those asking for "tank steer". Why is "tank steer" so popular?
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Unread 17-05-2011, 22:22
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Re: Tank Drive Car



Seriously, there's several major reasons why nearly all motor vehicles user Ackerman based steering instead of tank drive, including but not limited to cost, tire life, safety, ease of use, mechanical complexity, maintainability, etc.
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Unread 17-05-2011, 22:51
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Make these guys an offer.
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Unread 17-05-2011, 22:55
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Shoulda wired up an RC car controller to your robot, like we did....

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...23&postcount=6

(my old bulldozer has tank drive, complete with metal tracks, but steering requires using the brakes as well as pulling the steering clutches)
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Unread 17-05-2011, 23:10
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Re: Tank Drive Car

I didn't intend to have the car "street legal", just able drive with tank drive. A few of our senior and junior members (who have licenses) really want to try it out, and for some strange reason, our mentors said yes. So, they're anxiously awaiting for me to send them this thread. I do like that tank one......
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Unread 17-05-2011, 23:30
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Think about how far the outside rim of a steering wheel moves when you drive a "normal" car. Then think about the levers you'd use to get this same action from a tank drive setup. Would the leverage ratio be the same? how would it work?
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Unread 18-05-2011, 00:40
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNerd256 View Post
I didn't intend to have the car "street legal", just able drive with tank drive. A few of our senior and junior members (who have licenses) really want to try it out, and for some strange reason, our mentors said yes. So, they're anxiously awaiting for me to send them this thread. I do like that tank one......
Easy. Build this years kit bot Jenny-rig a seat on it then put to control system in there lap.

But if you want to acctually want to drive something full size, a tank is your best bet (ps some tanks are street legal in France).
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Unread 18-05-2011, 00:53
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Re: Tank Drive Car

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Originally Posted by MattC9 View Post
Jenny-rig a seat on it
I know a Jenny-ring is 8675309 but what is a Jenny-rig ?


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Unread 18-05-2011, 02:06
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Re: Tank Drive Car

This may very well be a big part of the future of racing, the ability the combine a traditional car system with hub motors to cause differential motion AND generate yaw would be very good in the corners indeed. Apparently a few Formula Student teams in Germany are working on exactly that.
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Unread 18-05-2011, 07:37
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
I know a Jenny-ring is 8675309 but what is a Jenny-rig ?

She would be Jerry Rig's sister.
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Unread 18-05-2011, 15:07
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Anybody had a look at the Playstation Ultra Racer?
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Unread 18-05-2011, 07:12
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Critchley View Post
Have any teams looked at user interface studies on "tank drive"? Our results from an early season test this year showed that independent up-down and left-right (axis 1 and 3) on a PlayStation style Logitech game pad was twice as fast for combined gross and precision movements. Our study involved at least 5 untrained users (users unfamiliar with the platform, not unfamiliar with various control methods) and the results were consistently half the time, even for those asking for "tank steer". Why is "tank steer" so popular?
Waaayyyy back when I was the drive coach on my old team, we did a study that showed that drivers all did better with "arcade drive" than with "tank drive" (then weren't known as that back then). On that team, we forbode "tank drive" after that.

I've been wanting to go to independent fore/aft left/right for years. We finally did it this year, but NOT with two sticks. We use one stick for the fore/aft and a spring-loaded knob for the rotational movement of the robot. This setup was extremely intuitive the drive, and it even eliminates the "turning in the opposite direction while the robot is facing you" problem with a stick. I'm thinking we'll stick with this configuration for a while.
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Unread 18-05-2011, 08:19
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Re: Tank Drive Car

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Originally Posted by Chris Hibner View Post
We use one stick for the fore/aft and a spring-loaded knob for the rotational movement of the robot. This setup was extremely intuitive the drive, and it even eliminates the "turning in the opposite direction while the robot is facing you" problem with a stick.
To your knowledge, does this interface already have a unique name, and if not have you given it one that we could use here on the forums?


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Unread 18-05-2011, 09:04
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether View Post
To your knowledge, does this interface already have a unique name, and if not have you given it one that we could use here on the forums?

No, we haven't given it a name. We've been talking about using this interface since the 2008 game, but this is the first year we've actually done it.

Feel free to think of a good name. I'm not very good at coming up with names.
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Unread 18-05-2011, 09:27
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Re: Tank Drive Car

Chris,

Do you have any idea why using the knob works better than a joystick when the robot it facing the driver?

I have suggested a rotating control to our team several times, but none of the students seem interested. I just figured it was the gaming mentality coming out.

-Hugh
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