CNN Special Featuring FIRST, Sunday 5/15

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Now that I have had a chance to think it over, what we perceive as a nice piece about FIRST and our students was more a report on the failing education system. CNN showed that bright, hard working students are not currently getting what they or the the US needs. CNN demonstrated the need to change by demonstrating that students that can compete in a difficult challenge like FIRST Robotics need something different, something more. The show might instill in some students a desire to join FRC teams as a result, but really leaves them wanting more from their local school boards. The great news is that FIRST students now have some role models to look up to. They can see that students from wide and varied backgrounds can achieve scholastic success and attend college and universities. I wish them all the best in the future.

[Dmentor]

Despite the great stories and FIRST publicity, in my opinion this was a very sobering and depressing documentary. Some points that I walked away with:

1. Parenting plays a primary role in education (no surprise there)
2. Insufficient inspiration and motivation for learning as a whole
3. Vast disparity between regional means and standards
4. Inadequate teaching of basic economics, planning and societal value
5. FIRST may be a step in the right direction but it is an awfully small step

Reflecting on these... I think it is probably unrealistic to expect that the schools can systemically fix parenting issues. Schools probably need to spend more time educating students on the role of education within our society and in our personal living standards and this should then form a basis of motivation in the absence of parental influence. If we can't sell the majority of students on the fact that education leads to a better life, then I see us always being in a downward spiral as one generation passes their values to the next. I doubt there are many students that think testing is fun. An educational system based around high stakes testing doesn't seem to me to be a model for inspiration to learn. Technology if used properly can help address the disparity issues but I've rarely seen it used properly and there are too many entrenched stakeholders in the current process. Ugh.

[Chris is me]

Schools can fix parenting issues. Keep in mind, they're teaching the next parents right now.

[Dmentor]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Schools can fix parenting issues. Keep in mind, they're teaching the next parents right now.

I'd love to know how to do this systematically. Both of my parents were teachers so I have had a pretty direct perspective on what the school can and can't fix. What I observed was that for my parents to "fix" parenting issues they pretty much had to become the student's parent by proxy. Since my parent's house was always open to strangers, we "adopted' plenty of students whose lives were clearly changed. I think that this had little to do with our school (other than providing the mechanism for them to meet my parents) and a lot to do with my parents. And as successful as they were at radically changing student's lives, they were only able to reach a small percentage of students. More often than not, students would under perform, fail, and ultimately drop out only to become parents of the next generation and then repeat the cycle. Maybe I'm overly pessimistic but it is happening all across the country in large numbers.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Dmentor

What I observed was that for my parents to "fix" parenting issues they pretty much had to become the student's parent by proxy.

I meant that the teachers can work to make sure the next generation of parents aren't as bad, by teaching... Probably a little optimistic.

[akoscielski3]

Unfortunatly they never pointed out that there were teams all over the worlds from canada, isreal, mexico , austrilia, ect.....

[JaneYoung]

Did anyone make use of the Parent And Educator Guide provided? Further insight and questions were provided that help understand the purpose of the Special.

The focus wasn't on FIRST. The focus was on the failing education system and its inconsistencies in the United States. You have to understand that to understand the program. Don't let your FIRST blinders prevent you from thinking.

Jane

[Alex_Miller]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

The focus wasn't on FIRST. The focus was on the failing education system and its inconsistencies in the United States. You have to understand that to understand the program. Don't let your FIRST blinders prevent you from thinking.

It seemed to me that FIRST promoted it to us (people in FIRST) as being more centered around FIRST. I feel like FIRST has been over promising things to FIRSTers more lately.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

...
And that there are no AP classes for extraordinary students like Brian to take advantage of in Tennessee. Wow. And yet he still scored in the top 1% of the nation on his ACT.
...

Just an FYI - AP Classes aren't necessary for doing well on an ACT. I just pseudo-randomly came across my high school transcript yesterday, and it is proof that one isn't a pre-req for the other.

Additiionally, I suspect that AP classes are a lousy way to invest the talents of students who can do well in ACT style testing.

With that said, a recommendation for Tennessee or any other state educational system to enter (or stay in) a race to the top sounds like a good thing. No argument there.

Blake

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by gblake

Additionally, I suspect that AP classes are a lousy way to invest the talents of students who can do well in ACT style testing.

What do you mean by this? Chances are if you are clever enough to get a 32, just getting through Algebra II by senior year will be pretty darn boring. You might as well get college credit if you can handle the advanced material. I understand that for some smaller schools it isn't financially viable to offer classes that only 2 students can take, but other than that I think its a no-brainer. Thanks to Maine's magnet school, I took enough AP classes to get finish my engineering degree in 3 years. And even one or two AP classes means one or two more interesting classes you can take.

Vex, FRC, TSA, PLTW, etc. are great, but AP credits make a real difference in your bottom line (and why take a class again if you already learned the material?).

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by gblake

Just an FYI - AP Classes aren't necessary for doing well on an ACT. I just pseudo-randomly came across my high school transcript yesterday, and it is proof that one isn't a pre-req for the other.

I got a 35 on my ACT and didn't take a single AP class. They really have nothing to do with each other at all.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

What do you mean by this?

My answer to your question is at the end of this. Indulge me as I supply some background info first.

I pulled in a 36 ACT math score and a composite 31 (My English gene was on vacation that day).

I learned calculus from a teacher (chemistry major) who decided he could stay a week ahead of us if we wanted him to "teach" it to us. I learned college level chemistry and about that much physics from the math major our local school had teaching chem/physics.

These are just anecdotes about my one situation that alone don't say much about the general problems or successes of USA schools; but they explain some of my experiences.

I got a great HS education without all of the bull that so often accompanies the AP and similar programs. No helicopter parents harassing the school system, no stress of attempting to earn a special diploma, no mountains of homework crowding out other important parts of my youth, etc.; instead we were just semi-rural public school classmates (5-10% of a class of 200) who enjoyed challenges, had parents wise enough to let us and those around us do our jobs, and had educators who were willing to let us chew through as much material as we could digest.

In particular, our parents knew we were getting a decent education, not because they went to school board meetings and yelled at someone once a year, or because they insisted the faculty report to them frequently or, ... but instead because they literally knew the faculty and administration, and the school faculty knew us, the students.

But, back to my earlier statement about AP classes.

First let me amend my statement to this (new words are blue): "Additionally, I suspect that AP classes are a lousy way to invest the talents of students who can do really, really well in ACT style testing."

Getting college credit through AP classes is great. If you can't scoot off to a community college or use the internet to take college classes during your high school years, taking an AP class to get some basic classes or electives out of the way (to make room for more advanced study of those topics) is a good thing; but I believe that benefit usually comes at a stiff price.

So, let's postulate that Jane Doe is in the top 1% of students in Tennessee and she is highly motivated to soak up as much knowledge as she can. My opinion is that we waste much of her time and talent by putting her on the AP treadmill. She needs something better. Something with more freedom to cultivate her interests, and with faster exposure to the deeper subjects that make the freshman-level college classes useful. She needs mentoring. She needs to be guided through the modern equivalent of the ancient library of Alexandria. And, she needs to be accompanied by as many of her classmates as are willing to go with her.

She and many of her classmates don't necessarily need to learn to run an AP race. Instead, if they care to take a different path, they need to be given a chance to learn the joy of simply running.

Later on, when the time is right, they can earn (or "test out of") those freshman-level credits. If they really are good at what they like to do, that part will be easy.

Not taking AP classes, doesn't mean not getting an education.

Blake

[MrForbes]

I wonder what this has to do with anything?

I got 32 on the ACT, I finished all the math and science classes my high school had to offer my junior year. I took typing, auto mechanics, and some independent study classes (where I did nothing) my senior year. I should have taken welding and machine shop, since we had a full vo tech program back in the late 70s.

Education is a tough business, it seems to be getting tougher all the time. I sure don't have the magic answer. Getting students into stuff like robotics does seem to help, but it only gets a small small percentage.

[pfreivald]

I teach robotics, American Sign Language and, get this: AP Physics B.

While not perfect, the AP B curriculum is a pretty good non-calc physics curriculum, and the test is well done. Students who prepare themselves well for AP tests generally prepare themselves well for college -- not super-genius skipping grades well, but pretty well, methinks.

[Kims Robot]

Originally Posted by Alex_Miller_2175

It seemed to me that FIRST promoted it to us (people in FIRST) as being more centered around FIRST. I feel like FIRST has been over promising things to FIRSTers more lately.

I can definitely see what would make you think that, but if you read FIRST's official announcement...

I am pleased to announce the airing of a TV special scheduled for this coming weekend on CNN entitled ‘Education in America: Don’t Fail Me,’ hosted by Soledad O’Brien, which prominently features three FIRST ® Robotics Competition (FRC®) teams as they navigate the 2011 FIRST season. I have seen a preview of this special and it is very thought provoking about the future of education in this country and how you, as a part of FIRST, can help for the better.

It really doesn't say that the program was ABOUT FIRST. It just says it follows 3 kids on FIRST teams as they navigate the season, and how we, as a part of the FIRST program can help.

I think we all heard what we wanted... that FIRST was finally getting its own 1 hour promo special... I know I thought that too, until I read & reread the articles previewing it on CNN's website.

But overall, I thought it did a decent job of capturing the build season, and I was happy that so many of my friends & family watched it. If you had a touch of background, it really gave more insight into "a buildseason in the life of a FIRSTer"... My grandmother and her brother (my great uncle I guess?!), and many of my friends and other family watched it and were thrilled to get a better understanding of the FIRST program, even if it was a little buried under the education system theme.

Overall, it is a little depressing how far our country is falling behind in world education. One of our mentors moved from China at a young age, but spoke at our pre-ship event about how intensely education is expected and enforced over there. Here in America, students have choices, there you are EXPECTED to get a good education and to work insanely hard for it, or you will never get a job or go to college (I'm paraphrasing from what I remember). Here in America, most kids go to school because that is just what you do... sure some have the drive to succeed, or some push/reach for more, but if we are going to get ahead, we need a much higher percentage of kids who WANT more education & WANT to do better.