Team Sustainability

[Johnny_5]

This year being our rookie year, I think I can speak on behalf of the team that we really had a lot of fun. But things cannot function like this year as they did last year.

Ever since I heard about a FRC team being started here in Marysville I has psyched. Another team let us borrow their robot and I just flew into it. I really have not been able to put down anything with FIRST for more than 24 hours since when I found out last fall. I have a huge amount of dedication to the program and would do absolutely anything to see it succeed and find kids my age who are passionate about STEM to congregate in this team. So soon enough without even realizing what I was doing I was the team captain, and determined to not let the team down.

Our mentors are mainly from Honda and there are a few teachers from the high school, which is where the trouble hits. These teachers I think were "assigned" by the people higher up the food chain in our school to work with this program, so their attitude wasn't so great from the get-go. One teacher works with the FFA and we believe that he say FRC as a threat to the FFA. But one of the teachers eventually did kind of seem to take some interest in the program.

Throughout the build season we found that we needed space for storage and we went to the teachers to talk to administration, and they never did anything. The one who liked the program accused us of making a mess of their shop area, so he took our batteries hostage, 4 days before ship date. We could not be in the school without the teachers and they never put in any time after 5:30 on weekdays, and never on weekends. But they all openly admitted to knowing nothing about the electronics or mechanics inside the robot, so for the first 2 weeks of build season we did nothing.

When competition came around the one teacher who took our batteries hostage seemed to get a little excited about going to the competition. And after the competition there was a meeting with what we need to do different next year all of these issues were brought up by parents and some they denied and others they said they will fix for next year. How are we supposed to trust them for next year? And the FFA teacher who is in charge of the metal shop has made all of his tools and shop area off limits and we are not allowed to use them, and the other teachers say this is not an issue.

I am not bad mouthing anyone in any way shape or form. Nor am I complaining. I simply am voicing for help. I do not think that these teachers should say they will do something but not have the time to commit wholeheartedly if their involvement is so crucial to success.

We have decided that we want to leave the school system so we can manage our own finances and less restricted access to the building. Does anyone know a good place to start looking for another meeting location? Right now we are working on securing the resources to put together a full machine/metal shop to work on the robot. On an ending note, leaving the school system was mentioned at that meeting and all of the teachers said they would not be involved if it was not at the school. They were legitimately threatening that this program would fall if they were not involved and it was not at the school.

Any help is welcome, thanks for listening

[Tom Ore]

I don't have a good answer for you. Some of the problems you are wrestling with are common to many teams. We've had to move our build site about 8 times so far.

You don't need access to a well equiped machine shop. You can learn to design competitive robots with fairly simple tools - many teams do that. We have a collection of hand tools, an inexpensive drill press and an aluminum chop saw - and that's it. We won two regionals this year so complicated machining capability is not required.

I'm not sure you want to give up on the school system just yet. The relationship may be a bit strained but I'd recommend you hang in there a bit longer and work to improve things. Maybe try to recruit another teacher that will be a stronger supporter for your team.

[EricH]

Start with this: Go to the administration. Inform them of the situation.
1) You are not allowed to use the FFA shop due to the teacher not wanting you to use it.
2) The one teacher who likes FIRST says you're making a mess and kept key robot parts (the batteries are critical) away from you. You'd like a mediator to discuss this sort of thing.
3) Your teachers don't seem to be very interested (aside from one or two); you would rather have interested teachers than "I have to be here because administration wants me here" ones.
4) You have limited build time due to when teachers are there. You'd like to know if other school staff would be all right if a teacher can't be there (trust me, you DO want to know this--it can expand your work time a bit).

If the administration cannot help you with the teacher difficulties, then you want to look at going independent. With strong enough support, you don't have to fall.

You have multiple options there. 4-H is one; a 501(c)(3) is another. I might recommend going through 4-H; talk to 1902 or 1501 on that. They may also know more about places to meet and things like that.

[Johnny_5]

There are many more reasons that I am not posting on here that we are upset with their involvement. One being the shipping contact never did anything and we were put in jeopardy of competing

Another person to add on to the list of people who have caused nothing but hardship for this program is our building principle. We have tried to post flyers and posters around the building and he will not let us. He also would not let us use the school gym on Saturday night because of a basketball game the night before, there are two gyms. I eventually had to go talk to him about a storage space and he said he would get back with me the next day. It took him 2 weeks and I had to follow up with him. Our principle supports the FFA program tremendously, he is always saying America Needs Farmers. The deal with him is just absolutely ridiculous.

We have had some dealings with administration that fixed some of the issues with access to buildings halfway through build season. But in our system the principle will always stand behind the FFA teacher, just the way it is. And our superintendent will always back the teachers and principle. A few people got angered at us because we are not following the chain of command, information first has to go to the teachers, then principle, then superintendent. These teachers have denied certain things in the past about who did what and who offended who when some administration talked to them. And admin will believe them, not us.

Admin will back up the FFA teacher in the fact that we are not allowed to use his area for our purposes because he is not involved. The superintendent seems to support the program partially but he seems limited in power and knows that it will take a lot to keep this program afloat.

We have looked into 501(c)(3) and are considering that option to get out of the school's fiscal system, the people who run that are also very non supportive of this program. They actually limit our spending, even though we are spending our own money.

We are all really lost, but my parents and I have talked and we decided if it is in our school system there is another close team that would like to have me on their team. See I did everything that someone else slacked on during build season. And I have been told that the stress really impacted me, but I never noticed.

[AlecMataloni]

Cut yourself loose from the school system if you can't get the crucial support you need. Never underestimate the potential generosity of the community.

[rsisk]

Perhaps you can find a teacher that is supportive of the team and bring them on board to support you. If you cut your ties to the school, life becomes a lot harder than it already is, this should be your last resort. If it does come to cutting the ties, don't burn any bridges, you never know when you will need the school.

[EricH]

Start with 4-H. Take the team members that are still interested and want to be involved, and see if you can go that route. Start by talking to existing 4-H teams (1501, Indiana, and 1902, Florida, come to mind). From what I understand, the tax-exempt status and insurance can go with 4-H. And I don't think any farming-focused administration would object to 4-H...

One thing to bear in mind: When (if) you go independent, make sure to inform your administration (particularly the ones that are friendly to you) that you are going independent--and that whoever wants to help out is welcome to join you.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by EricH

One thing to bear in mind: When (if) you go independent, make sure to inform your administration (particularly the ones that are friendly to you) that you are going independent--and that whoever wants to help out is welcome to join you.

That's quite an oversimplification. There are a lot more issues in play than remembering to tell the school that you're branching off. Keep in mind that things like robots, grants, and possibly the team's identity are the property of the school, and that forming an "independent" club may mean various legal issues with the team's students and participation.

[Johnny_5]

We have looked into 4H, and are considering it. But it seems as if 501c3 is more appealing and more flexible, plus then we don't have to abide by some of 4H's rules for age.

Can anyone tell me what we need to have in the ways of insurance to make sure everyone is protected?

And the fact is that except for a few teachers no one is going to fight us leaving. No one except students even know how to work our equipment.

Let me clear up one thing. We have plenty of students and even more coming next year. We are also hoping to open up to another local district with it being outside of our school system. We also have plenty of mentors who are interested in coming back next year plus a few more

[Carol]

Insurance isn't mandatory but is recommended - not all independent teams have it. But be prepared for the cost - MOE pays $3000 a year for insurance.

It sounds as if going independent would be a good solution, but you would be on your own for fundraising. Can you raise the, say $10,000 needed to compete?

One solution is to perhaps do FTC for a year or two, and then consider going back to FRC once you build up the support system. There is a strong FTC program in Ohio - about 100 teams or so. Team Overdrive, 2753, has done this very successfully - they started with FTC for a few years, did FRC (and won Archimedes Divsion in 2009 I think) for two years, but this year competed as FTC again, keeping their same name, logo, and team number the entire time.

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by Johnny_5

We have looked into 4H, and are considering it. But it seems as if 501c3 is more appealing and more flexible, plus then we don't have to abide by some of 4H's rules for age.

Can anyone tell me what we need to have in the ways of insurance to make sure everyone is protected?

And the fact is that except for a few teachers no one is going to fight us leaving. No one except students even know how to work our equipment.

Let me clear up one thing. We have plenty of students and even more coming next year. We are also hoping to open up to another local district with it being outside of our school system. We also have plenty of mentors who are interested in coming back next year plus a few more

Knowing that they have an assembly plant in your town, Honda sounds like a wonderful corporate partner and source of experienced mentors/engineers. Have you asked those adults for advice and guidance in trying to work with your school administration? Perhaps they can help you out?

Many schools welcome community corporate involvement in their programs - it is great positive partnership that has benefits for everyone. If Honda is committed to being a sponsorship and mentor provider for your team, I would think they'd want the working arrangement for the team at the school to be as productive as possible, without causing the district any undue heartache.

Perhaps your Honda mentors' management can help arrange a meeting with the school leadership that establishes ground rules that work for all involved? The influence and backing of a large corporate community sponsor can often help a school "see things in a different light".

Who knows - they might even have resources (workspace, tools, access to equipment) they'd be willing to share. Has anyone asked them about this?

[Johnny_5]

We have never received any sort of aid from our school district other than a limited shop, some storage space, and the assigned teachers. Absolutely no money came from our school system.

FTC is being considered and it seems like a viable option if FRC falls through, but we are going to try as hard as we can to keep FRC until deciding to go to FTC.

Honda is an absolutely great sponsor to have locally. There was some contact with Honda management about getting access to the school because our school was freaking out about $50 and we were not allowed to use club funds to pay for it. That contact between Honda and the district did not fall under good terms from what I understand and besides a few emails, that was it.

Our school doesn't seem so welcome about corporate sponsoring. We had plans to bring it a metal lathe, stationary nice metal band saw, 3axis CNC vertical mill, and a vertical sander. And this was at no charge to them, free use because we wanted to have them. They shot that idea down so fast it wasn't even funny.

There are laws that govern minors in industrial facilities along with company policies that I could imagine are in place for working at Honda. They may have resources, they actually closed down the motorcycle manufacturing line a few years ago, wonder what that building is being used for.... And that is just not an idea we have pursued yet. The other issue with that is Honda is outside of our school district border so transportation out there would be very difficult for kids who can't drive. Another is like all teams students come from all walks of life and I know of some parents who cannot commit to driving all the way out of town to pickup their kids. And I would hate to not have some of the dedicated kids not be able to go because of issues like that.

I am waiting till summer to start fully planning and working on everything, that goodness that's only 2 days away. I am planning a meeting with the chamber of commerce and county commissioners. And then hopefully a town hall meeting. I would also like to meet with the Ohio regional FRC director to see what we can do.

[Koko Ed]

There are some good discussion on the matter in this previous thread on the subject.

[Johnny_5]

It looks as if there are a few teachers who were not involved this year that might be interested, as well as some teachers from other buildings. We don't want to cut ties, but we do want to leave. We will still try and promote the program through the school district.

There are a few buildings in our city that I am going to check and see if we could setup shop in even for just a few months out of the year. The school and teachers do not provide an environment where we can promote STEM and learn, they foster an environment for learning about political BS