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Unread 10-06-2011, 13:52
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Relay to control 2 outputs

Hey everyone.
I have an off season project to make LED rods and put them on the robot and get them to light up in patterns (I am also a programmer). Being that there are going to be 4 rods, I thought I could save space and money by using only two Spike relays, attaching two Positive wires to it and using a common ground that isn't run through a relay.
If I recall right, this has been used for solenoids (? might be wrong). In my mind it should work, is there any reason it shouldn't?
Secondly, is it legal to control two outputs with one controller? (haven't read rules for a long time, I forgot many of them)

Thanks in advance,
Micah
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Unread 10-06-2011, 14:31
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

This is an off-season project, legality is not an issue.

There is no reason why it wouldn't work. In LV at least, the Spike has four output states (Off, Forward, Reverse, and On). Fwd will set one on and the other off, Reverse will set the second one on and the first one off, and On will turn them both on.
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Unread 10-06-2011, 16:39
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

the reason legality is an issue is that I am making two sets, one for the current bot, and one for next years bot (using the same code)
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Unread 10-06-2011, 17:05
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

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Originally Posted by Micah Chetrit View Post
the reason legality is an issue is that I am making two sets, one for the current bot, and one for next years bot (using the same code)
See R42. Controlling 2 solenoid or low-current light outputs with one Spike has been legal for many years. As long as you properly send the negative wires back to a black PD board negative terminal (presumed ok to splice the negative leads to fit into a single terminal), you should be fine.

However, what would not be legal is preparing these LED arrays and wire harnesses for use on a 2012 FRC robot - you must wait to perform all such work after kickoff of the 2012 season, during approved robot work times.
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Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 10-06-2011 at 17:12.
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Unread 10-06-2011, 17:13
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Oh, I didn't know about that.
what specifically is forbidden? Can I wire the leds and put them in a tube (therefore just creating a part), but not wire it to a relay? or is making custom parts before season not legal?
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Unread 10-06-2011, 17:18
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

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Originally Posted by Micah Chetrit View Post
Oh, I didn't know about that.
what specifically is forbidden? Can I wire the leds and put them in a tube (therefore just creating a part), but not wire it to a relay? or is making custom parts before season not legal?
The latter case is true. Until the rules change, you cannot fabricate custom parts or construct custom assemblies for your official FRC robot prior to the start of the season. This is one of the core tenets of the FRC program - every team must engineer their robot within the same time window.
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Last edited by Travis Hoffman : 10-06-2011 at 17:21.
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Unread 10-06-2011, 17:20
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Thank you for pointing that out. I guess I only have to make one set this summer then.
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Unread 10-06-2011, 19:10
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Micah,
It is also possible that this wiring method would be illegal during next year's game and rules. I would hope that the GDC allows teams to use this method but you never know for sure. As stated the Spike is capable of switching either or both outputs between high and low states. The manual for the Spike explains this.
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Unread 11-06-2011, 17:27
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Micah,

If you connect them to a Jaguar or Victor you could dim them. With different colors that could give you some interesting effects. You would need to put the LEDs in series to be able to tolerate the 12 volts...maybe 6 LEDs and a current limiting resistor. Just an idea...

-Hugh
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Unread 11-06-2011, 23:31
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Just as a note, what Travis said is perfectly true; any design done preseason is not legal for use during competition. However, if the design is modified (i.e. improved or optimized during competition) for the robot, then it is indeed legal.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 00:19
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Although it is worth noting that given that this seems to be more decorative than functional - designing a whole drive train in the offseason is one thing, designing some pretty lights is something else entirely. I wouldn't worry too much about breaking the intent of the "6 weeks" thing.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 11:39
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

I don't have the latest version of the C++ WpiLib source code available to look at right now, but I don't think it allows both relay outputs to be turned on at the same time. Could someone explain why the Relay class was written this way and if it can be changed for the next library release.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 12:48
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Warner View Post
I don't have the latest version of the C++ WpiLib source code available to look at right now
Whenever you have access to the web, V20110203rev2259 is available online for browsing.

The only stated differences from V20110203rev2262 are:
1. A NetConsole error in the cRIO that under some circumstances corrupt memory in the cRIO.
2. Fixed an error with the ADXL345 I2C accelerometer.
3. Fixed an error with allocation tracking in the Counter class.




Last edited by Ether : 12-06-2011 at 12:59.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 16:02
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

Thanks Ether. So in Relay::Set there is no way for the kOn case to set both outputs true. I think this is something that could be easily fixed.
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Unread 12-06-2011, 20:37
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Re: Relay to control 2 outputs

To my memory, I believe controlling the 4 states of a Spike involves splicing together two outputs into the Spike input, though I could be wrong.
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