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Unread 15-06-2011, 12:40
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

Looking at other peoples' inputs, I generally agree with what they say. As a classroom tool, the iPad is a serious idea - perhaps the last gen, a hundred dollars off. The lack of a keyboard can be a serious issue, however - that may have to be addressed. I recommend doing research at local schools into the iPad virtual keyboard vs. a physical keyboard. The real benefit of the iPad is simplicity. Setting up a three class-wide Google Docs system took two days at my middle-class school... for a pre-AP English class.

In the same class, we discussed this earlier. Frankly, I think it comes down to two things:

1) Do you need the processing power? For day-to-day school stuff, no. For engineering and other electives, probably. If the computers need to fill a need of lots of processing power, then you're probably going to have to explore the likely cheaper AMD competitor to Sandy Bridge. With that: 14-15" laptop screen, at least 3 USB ports (from personal experience with my 2-USB port laptop, which means I have to carry around a hub), and a video-out, probably VGA. SD card slot would be nice for some of the photography-related electives.

2)However, if this is just intended to be a computer just to get online and type papers, what is wrong with a Chromebook? Google-supported (so it will eventually be very reliable). Browser-only, so less software distractions and hassles for the IT department. Everything can tie into your school's Google Apps account if they have one (like my school). 12" screen, Intel Atom power, and reasonably priced - they're looking into $20 or so a month plans, and some other very reasonable pricing structures for enterprises.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 14:32
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

The legislation is done. The debate is now how to implement. I know the question is loaded..this information is helping me form a survey that is going to be distributed in state. Your ideas are helping me form those questions and offering options and opinions of current tech that I might not have thought of otherwise. Here's the task:

www.studentscomefirst.org

The readings, minutes and directives of the task force are here:

http://studentscomefirst.org/technologytaskforce.htm

By my own math there are approximately 29-30k students in each grade state-wide. If they buy for 1 grade a year that's $300-$350 per device. This will need to include warranty and insurance. But remember, the buying power of a 29,000-30,000 unit purchase might come into play one might think. I have heard as high as $600 per unit, but I haven't seen hard numbers. Again, I'm not asking for a specific device, more the important features or useful features for learning. If it doesn't impact learning, it doesn't warrant consideration from my understanding.

IT support is supposed to largely come from the vendor with local controls being placed on the units.

This was not intended as a debate of the merits. If you are presently in or an alumni of a school with a 1:1 initiative I'd love to hear from you.

This is more about what features you'd like as a student or would have liked as a student for accessing online classes, hybrid or blended learning classes, multimedia, digital textbooks, etc. Again, I know this is an open ended and loaded question, but I ask it because people have a passionate opinion or experience that I can learn from.

As for theft and damages -- my suggestion so far is that if students want to take them home their family can make a small contribution to the insurance on that device. Otherwise they would check it out from the library or some similar system that already exists on a daily basis as needed. I don't know if that would happen, but that's my thought on it right now. It also helps with some buy-in on the student and family's part. There would of course be some agreements signed with the parents as well.

As a FIRST coach I'd love to load them up with portable workstations, CAD/CAM, LabVIEW, Wind-river, etc. But I don't see that happening, nor useful for the majority of the population.

So again...

Tablet vs PC vs Netbook vs ???

Google's Chrome devices look promising, but I wonder how many programs are 'married' to MS Office. I'd bet most Business courses include a Mouse or IC3 program directly tied to Microsoft...so we have to be cognizant of that fact in some way. That said, I'm not suggesting a windows based device, but just putting the ideas out there. I have an iPad...it has it's uses. I have a Kindle that I love...but lack of animations, video capability, or interaction make this a textbook substitute, but not a multimedia learning tool.

Thank you for your input. Did not intend to open a debate on the merits...it's happening...help me make it as best as I can!
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Last edited by techedguy : 15-06-2011 at 14:45. Reason: additional thoughts.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 16:03
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

That is essentially small business laptops (ThinkPads, Latitudes, EliteBooks). They are robust, and the cheaper models should be negotiable to within $300-$350. Then, you have a good OEM support system behind you.

As for the real world:

If you want to have support for most/all of the school's courses, you're going to need Windows, no doubt about it.

So, what does most of the school population (read: not students who are in FIRST or on Chief Delphi) require in a laptop not for special electives (engineering, graphic design, programming)?

-Internet browsing
-Microsoft Office tools (papers, presentations, etc.)
-Easy usability. It literally needs to be able to be understood by a baby - that's how difficult it is for some students in our education system to understand technology.

And that's about it. That perfectly fits the definition of a netbook.

In a netbook hardware-wise, you'll want, from my perspective as a high school student:

-Strong battery life (go a whole day without charging may be an appropriate goal). People don't like fiddling around with cords
-Larger screen than the Classmate (the only netbook I've fiddled with really, at 10"). The screen is shrunk almost to the point of no usability, as is the keyboard. I would recommend 12", as those tend to be the larger netbooks, and you still get good power consumption. Or, if you are going to step up to real laptops, 13.3" is a good, popular form factor.
-Robustness. Teenagers, at least, drop electronics (phones) ALL of the time. It will happen.

That is essentially small business laptops (ThinkPads, Latitudes, EliteBooks). They are robust, and the cheaper models are within $340-$400, on their website. Which is when you negotiate, because of your buying power. Plus, you have a good OEM support system behind you.

Those are the basics for hardware - usability for every student, every day. Literally, 99% of the students are not going to care about the specifications. Now, just go out to vendors and figure out who will most likely give you the best deal.

As for software, which seems to have to do more with "This is more about what features you'd like as a student or would have liked as a student for accessing online classes, hybrid or blended learning classes, multimedia, digital textbooks, etc." That's likely completely up to each school's IT department. The only way to innovate that way with hardware is by trying a tablet.

I'm curious - what are the things you don't like about an iPad? They are very easy to pick up and use, which is the issue with Windows - some people struggle. That, I believe, will be a big issue with putting this laptops in schools. Also with an iPad, document-sharing will be simple(r) with iCloud, and with iOS 5 comes easy video-out compatibilities. They are sort of a toy, but very powerful if used correctly.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 17:24
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

Ok, then I won't say anything about the merits of the program. However, perhaps it's best to narrow down the approach some, since the average student tends to ask for more than he/she wants and for the wrong reasons. A couple of aids to help narrow down the questions to ask:

With regards to content and online courses -- unless the online exams are all multiple choice then a touch-only interface (or any non-tactile touch keyboard) is a bad idea (IMO I suppose, though there are articles supporting it). This is really driven by content providers -- those who write the tests, make the learning material, etc. If there's a hybrid approach to online courses (receive content online, turn in products like tests/project in person), then this may be a non-issue.

Word Processing, Spreadsheets, and Presentation Slides can all be done without Microsoft, so you're not stuck with Windows machines if you don't want one. On the flip side, Microsoft OneNote does offer a lot of value for students. The snip tool was the key deciding factor for me -- snip a piece of the screen, insert it into OneNote, type some notes on it. Works better than Evernote in most cases. Works great for very interactive things (e.g. pause YouTube video, snip the YouTube screen, make notes, resume video), but not so great for creating new documents.

Other than that, programmers usually want big screens, or at least the ability to hook up to one. Everyone wants keyboards that are easy to type on. That goes back to the limitations on what the students are allowed to do.

From there it's a matter of how much leniency you want to give the students -- more controls (network policies, antivirus, antispyware, website blocking) all take more resources to use. I seriously doubt a 2-core Atom processor is enough to handle all of the IT policy-type things that could come up. Yet if you're stuck with a (pre-insurance/etc) price of less than $300, then netbooks may be the only option -- so adjusting the IT policies may be in order.

The next thing to consider is the infrastructure to store all of the user documents, particularly if it's a netbook check-out system. Should students use their own storage service, and if so, which services should be supported by the IT department (Dropbox, MS Sync, any other cloud services) and what limitations would be expected (say no to thumb drives, honestly...). My personal favorite for school-type things is DropBox.

As for Chromebooks -- I'm still out with the jury on this one. On the one hand, they're almost exactly what you need right now. However, that's a bit impulsive over the life cycle of a product. Google makes the implication that the life cycle of their product is 2 years -- which implies $480 for the hardware & software. If $480 (pre-insurance/etc) fits your profile for the life cycle & features, then it may be a good deal. However, consider that $960 can get a piece of hardware that will last for the life cycle of a high school student and have more capability.

Good luck.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 17:38
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

My recommendation is that whatever you get, get the cheaper ones, and plan to replace them a few years down the line. All the time I see schools making foolish decisions buying the latest and greatest technology which loses its value due to depreciation and becomes obsolete long before they ever plan to replace or upgrade it. It makes much more sense to buy mediocre computers every 4 years than to buy awesome computers every 8 years.

Also, don't ever depend on the vendor for IT support. It simply won't happen. Your district needs a proficient, robust, efficient, and well staffed IT department to venture into this realm.

Finally, content, content, content!

What is going to be loaded onto these devices? What types of activities will the students be doing? Laptops, netbooks, tables, and Smart Boards are all useless in a learning environment without the educational content to go with them.

Also, as a matter of cost-benefit, what exactly is gained by giving the students a device they can take home as opposed to keeping the resources at the school. I'd expect a rather high loss and damage rate if they were allowed to regularly take them home.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 17:51
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

I am NOT a student, but our district has had a 1:1 laptop program for several years now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudefise View Post
should also give students admin rights
I advise against that, unless your IT support staff is huge. Like any enterprise solution, giving free reign doesn't work well.
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Originally Posted by sanddrag View Post
A project like this opens a whole new can of worms/problems. I wouldn't recommend it. I would like to see solid statistical numbers showing such a program improves student achievement greater than putting those funds elsewhere.
I beg to differ. Yes, there are new challenges, but after a year or two they were overcome. Now our students seem to excel - our district is consistently in the top 20 in the state (of over 600 districts). I don't have the stats, but someone around here does, and it works.

(But the point that technology alone does not solve anything is 100% valid. Teachers, administrators, students and parents must ALL work on this for it to be effective. Oh, and push "paperless" right from the start, or the schools will be buried under printer paper in short order)

techedguy, take a look here at the info for the 1:1 initiative, and if you want to speak/communicate with someone in the school administration or IT team, or have specific questions (we use laptops with 13" screens) just let me know via PM.

http://www.pascack.k12.nj.us/pascack...te/default.asp

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Last edited by DonRotolo : 15-06-2011 at 17:55.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 18:03
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

I just graduated from the Illinois Mathematics and Science Academy (IMSA).

IMSA has implemented a 1-to-1 program over the past few years, and has been attempting to make use of convertible tablets by requiring every student in the class of 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 to have the convertible functionality. This experiment has shown that the tablet functionality was not being used in the classrooms enough to make it a worthwhile investment. Starting with the class of 2014, IMSA will be moving to standard laptop configuration.

Personally, the extra cost that the convertible functionality adds is not worth it. It provides some WOW factor, but then it gets boring after a while and doesn't get used much.

https://www3.imsa.edu/helpdesk/1to1
As for basic spec, I would say, 12-14" screen, full size keyboard, good battery.

Feel free to PM me, and then I could put you in contact with some members of the administration who would be more than willing to answer questions, or answer questions from a student prospective.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 19:20
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

Google announced $20/a month pricing for school districts who wish to purchase chromebooks. One problem is that it is a 3 year plan and there is only 2 models of chromebooks on the market. And the web can do a lot of things but there is still a need for a full OS like Windows in daily life.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 19:42
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

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Google announced $20/a month pricing for school districts who wish to purchase chromebooks. One problem is that it is a 3 year plan and there is only 2 models of chromebooks on the market. And the web can do a lot of things but there is still a need for a full OS like Windows in daily life.
That is where I disagree. For the average high school student who may not be taking this out of class, a browser and a office suite is all they need - Chrome and Google Docs.

The lack of models is no issue - many consider them to be some of the best on the market. (http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/10/s...ries-5-review/)

However, if specific classes (school newspapers, Microsoft Office classes that aim for IC3 certification, and that sort of thing) are a large issue, than Windows is non-negotiable. That, and a school where processing power is a must because work from CAD classes, programming, and graphic design is a must for the schools too.

It may be a struggle for IT - except it is so limited in scope. Overall, I find it is difficult to argue against Chrome OS.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 19:49
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

Sal,

Last semester, I worked as an virtual intern for the ed. tech. division of the nat'l school boards assoc. and though I was not implementing 1:1 or cloud platforms, I had the opportunity to learn through my meeting a good deal about resources available to learn how to implement ed. tech. effectively.

My recommendation would be to get in touch with Ann Flynn and Gene Broderson who head the division for the NSBA. They both have a wealth of knowledge and experience. Each year, Ann tours the country running large tours and programs showcasing how schools have effectively used these tools. This year she visited Pascack shortly after they did great things at the NJ regional. This year they were also heavily interested in cloud computing in the classroom. They know the tools and they really work to find effective, personal and equitable examples of implementation.

While it has its limits, I believe that this could be the greater advantage of 1 to 1- that each student has equal access to Blackboard, Google Docs, Dropbox, whatever, regardless of their wealth. Also, understand that project in my internship was to explore the benefits and caveats of Clouds. Think FIRST - the answer is collaboration and cloud computing allows an unlimited amount of it in any discipline. The answer is preparation rather than rote memorization and homework that lacks meaning and by granting access through 1:1, students can get the attention needed from peers and teachers to be prepared for the classroom experience of dialogue and learning challenges.

I encourage you to check out this website that addresses this issue explicitly:
http://educloudconsortium.org/

Also check out:
http://nsba.org

While I've done more work on cloud platforms than 1:1, I definitely recommend you follow Don's advice and check out Pascack Valley's route. They're doing great things.

Hope this helps,
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Unread 15-06-2011, 20:07
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

The hardware for chromebooks may be good, but the OS itself isn't ready for production. I have a CR-48 (which is slower than the Samsung) and the OS is still missing some polish. Flash still causes crashes and browsing USB sticks was just built in. Most sites require a reload to be loaded without error and they have been released with the same OS that the CR-48 has on it.
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Unread 15-06-2011, 22:39
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

I may be mistaken, but are these computers supposed to replace desktops located within the school? If you keep the regular computers for classes such as drafting or programming or website design, that could really change what you need. I'm not going to pretend to know enough about computers to give any real suggestions. I have just been reading this thread out of interest and answer the above question would prob help others(with more computer knowledge) to give better support. It would definitely seem that you could get by with less if you kept certain computers in the classroom for specialty classes.

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Unread 16-06-2011, 00:22
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

The one thing I would have liked to have throughout these past 4 years would be a simple tablet that would replace all my books, notebooks, paper work sheets, pens, and pencils, etc. It would mean the difference between carrying 80 lbs around on your back every day and carrying 5 lbs in your hand.

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Unread 16-06-2011, 00:30
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Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

You've still got to give us some more information. Not every task, nor every user is created equal, and consequently the hardware and software requirements will depend on what's being asked of those systems. (Otherwise, you're just ending up with wish lists for particular cases, which may or may not be relevant to your schools.)
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More details please. What's this program intended to do? Will curriculum be designed to require (or take advantage) one of these devices? Is this a way of passing responsibility for IT services on to the students? How rich is the content on the online course system? Is it possible to replace textbooks with this device? Will the device be crippled so that students can't do various extracurricular things during class? Does every student need the same thing? Do the legislators understand enough about computing, education and people in general to make sensible decisions about this?
We could give you case-by-case lists of what would be useful, but that would be long and complicated. (A case for the students who do art, another for the ones who program, and for the ones who CAD, and the ones who write, and the ones who can't read English well, and the ones who have disabilities, and the ones who don't want to use your computer, etc.; then a case for the schools where the teachers are sending lessons online, and one for the schools that are replacing their computer labs and firing the IT staff, and one for the school where theft is a rampant problem, etc.....) Surely we can narrow things down by describing the end uses that you think are worth considering?

Maybe the most important message is that if you pick a single type of device for everyone, you'll end up with a large plurality of unsatisfied students (who thought they were getting something useful). Think very carefully about the point where economies of scale start exhibiting diminishing returns—because that may drive your decision about adopting a single solution for everyone.
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Unread 16-06-2011, 00:46
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Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 1 to 1 Computing -- Seeking Input

You may consider contacting Kyle Hughes. OSMTech (now CSMTech) where FRC27 is based out of has had technology in the classroom as long as I was aware of the program. They never quite had a program where they gave out computers to students to use as their personal machines but they did have a set large enough for a whole class to use. She may be able to offer some insight from an educator's perspective of the benefits and drawbacks of this sort of program.

As for those people saying that it only effects 10-15% of students because most already have computer access... I wish you were right. It depends heavily on the area, in 2009 I had a student on the team whose family did not have a phone line. No, I don't mean they didn't have a cell phone. I mean their family had no phone at all. For years we struggled with parents who could not afford to drive their students to meetings because it would use too much gas.
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