Michigan, be honest, how is the district model?

[GGCO]

I'm actually on the same team as mobilegamer, and would have to agree with him.

The added level(s) of competition are very beneficial as you get to perfect your game as the season progresses. The added time gives you a competitive advantage once you get to nationals, but as mobilegamer said the added cost of State and *potentially* Nationals is difficult for teams to pay. Especially in Michigan.

I honestly don't see why FIRST doesn't allow FIRSTInMichigan to run our own State championship - other than they enjoy lining their pockets. Costs would significantly decrease.

Other than that, the smaller district events are more exciting and fast paced. Also they feel more "local" - everyone knows each other. This makes these events feel more competitive and friendly. It's really cool to see a new member meet new people from different communities and schools.

[sgreco]

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 2 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. 3 events for a cheaper cost than 2 sounds like a deal to me.

My point is it's neither a drawback nor an advantage compared to the standard system elsewhere. If anything it's cheaper.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 3 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. That is cheaper, not more expensive.

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

Yeah, but Districts aren't $4000 each like regionals are.

[mobilegamer999]

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP. Trust me, Michigan is cheaper.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP.

Okay, just looked at USFirst's website and I was wrong, I thought non-Michigan teams got 2 regionals, but in fact they only get one. So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events, however, registration is not the only expense, transportation, lodging and food can rack up a hefty difference between 2 and 3 events.

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events.

No. You get 2 districts for and KOP for your entry (I think it's $5000). In order to do two regionals, you need to pay $5000 for the KOP and 1 regional, then another $4000 for your second. That's $9000 for 2 events. You are paying $5000. Michigan districts are cheaper.

2 districts and State champs is the cost of 2 regionals.

Edit: Nicholas beat me to it.

[ratdude747]

I may not be from Michigan but I DO remember the pre district era.

my biggest beef is it makes those not in Michigan locked out of Michigan. I remember going to great lakes rgional on 1747, and All i have to say it was one of my favorite regionals I've ever been to.

in my current position, if we went to states only, being in Kentucky in Louisville means that if there ever was a team on the Indiana side (one of my 5 year goals), we would be locked out of a district in Louisville. Which is imho, DUMB. We would have to go to at least Columbus, IN for the closest major Indiana City, which is about 1 hour away when there is a much larger city 10 min away across a bridge.

Also, I liked getting an excuse to go long distances by going to a far away, exotic regional. It was an added perk that in the past was something that attracted new members on the borderline of joining.

maybe have districts without the state championship and getting any award at the district with a trophy would get you to St. Louis (or wherever it is that year). anybody could go to any district competition, with a limit on how many per year (say 4 or so). that way, there would be less of a borders issue so Canadian teams on the border could go to US districts, Kentucky teams to Indiana districts, etc.

just my $0.02 on the issue.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'm curious about how teams from the Upper Peninsula feel about the district system these days and how it has evolved.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I'm curious about how teams from the Upper Peninsula feel about the district system these days and how it has evolved.

Another great question. There is no silver bullet. For the 95% of the teams in the state that this system helps with double the play time, it's definitely tough on teams that are far from the epi-center in southern Michigan. FiM has made an effort to get competitions north. The problem in the past has been that there simply weren't enough teams up there to support it.

We have the Traverse City regional. It's 4.5 hours from Detroit, but 8.5 hours from worse-case Ironwood in the UP. It ends up being a travel-event for all the UP teams anyway. However, the flip side is that pretty much any other event is going to be a travel event for them.

The downside to that is that if they want to earn their way in to States, they MUST attend 2 districts. Of course, their odds of getting in through a single normal regional event and winning to move on would be extremely small as well. 6 of one, half dozen of another.

[prettycolors91]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I'm curious about how teams from the Upper Peninsula feel about the district system these days and how it has evolved.

To be honest, it has posed significant benefits and challenges for those of us in the U.P. I work with three teams that center around Michigan Tech, and we're about 2.5 hours from the Wisconsin border. On the other hand, it takes us about 9.5 hours to travel to Traverse City, which is the closest district event to us.

The students that I work with have for the most part "grown up" in the district system, but many of the mentors and teachers remember the regional system in Michigan. The district model makes it difficult to coordinate several trips downstate with multiple teams. We are tackling this issue by trying to all attend the same district events, but that is not always possible when spaces fill up so quickly for the "hot" districts. Having all three teams at one district can also pose its problems, because the match turnaround. Many of our mentors "float" during the build season to help address specific needs that cater to their talents, and they can be stretched pretty thin during a district where all of their teams are present.

I am always hopeful that a district event will crop up in the U.P., but it's doubtful. Although many people express that they love traveling to far away places for competitions, the U.P. is probably not on their list of glamorous locales. We have about seven teams in the U.P., which means that we'd have to get at least 30 teams to travel to a new location, which would probably be around the Mackinac or Sioux region, which is still about 5 hours away for those of us in the Western U.P.

Overall, it would be much easier for us if we went to Wisconsin, but we all love the way that FiM is set up, and it gets much more "play" time for our students. I just wish we could have a district a little closer to home to help save on travel costs.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by prettycolors91

...
Overall, it would be much easier for us if we went to Wisconsin, but we all love the way that FiM is set up, and it gets much more "play" time for our students. I just wish we could have a district a little closer to home to help save on travel costs.

So why don't you??? This is a serious question, not a rhetorical one.

The external borders of Michigan aren't magical lines-of-death.

I have a hunch that the presence or absence of a robotics team is usually correlated with the presence or absence of mentors, sponsors and/or faculty who get the urge to form one, and not with a state boundary.

Even when a team's existence is correlated with a state program of some sort, I have a further hunch that the state program(s) usually wouldn't object to the team competing in sane nearby locations.

Surely we/FRC have the ability to form (and evolve) districts that are based on where teams actually exist rather than on 200-300 year old state boundaries that exist for a zillion reasons other than efficient/effective STEM inspiration.

State boundaries often become a crutch rather than an aid in this sort of situation. I hope that doesn't become the case throughout FRC.

Blake

[gblake]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

...
in my current position, if we went to states only, being in Kentucky in Louisville means that if there ever was a team on the Indiana side (one of my 5 year goals), we would be locked out of a district in Louisville. ... We would have to go to at least Columbus, IN for the closest major Indiana City, which is about 1 hour away when there is a much larger city 10 min away across a bridge.
...

Amen - Concentrations of teams do not respect state boundaries. Perhaps in a rather distant future enough teams will exist in enough locations to make this largely irrelevant, but that day isn't today.

Blake

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by gblake

Amen - Concentrations of teams do not respect state boundaries. Perhaps in a rather distant future enough teams will exist in enough locations to make this largely irrelevant, but that day isn't today.

Blake

Tell me about it. There is 2 parts of the area- Louisville and "not Louisville". the latter is the half in Indiana. You can guess where most of the wealth and resources are that could be used for FIRST.

I am the first and as it looks, the only Student living on the Indiana side of the Louisville to ever be involved in FIRST, let alone FRC.

The only reason I was involved (and knew about FIRST) was my 3 years prior on 1747 HBR In West Lafayette, IN. There, you could say i was umm, very devoted. Heck, my devotion earned me a 2010 Dean's list semi-finalist pin. You could say I was addicted to FIRST. As luck would have it, there was a team across the river who was happy to have a Veteran from another team become part of their family. It may have involved 45 minutes driving each way, but I was determined to have FRC as part of my Senior year in High school. And believe me, my devotion didn't lessen.

Had I not been exposed back at my old high school, I would have never known FIRST existed, let alone have the motivation to become part of it.

due to this, if Kentucky ever went to a district setup, my dream of bringing FIRST to the Indiana side of the river city, would be much more difficult. As it is, the nearest regional is back in my former home in West Lafayette at Purdue's Boilermaker regional, where my current team, 2783, has gone for the last 3 years. making districts state restricted would make it worse as many would see it as too dumb as to do anything you have to go 3 hours north on I65 instead of 15 minutes south.

I know that was a bit off topic, but that's my thoughts on turning FIRST into a state restricted sport.

Either way, GO FIRST! it must be good if i am willing to burn 1.5hr travel every day of build season for it (plus the same for the 8 weeks following for withholding/practice bot duties).