Michigan, be honest, how is the district model?

[pafwl]

I am part of Mid Atlantic Robotics a new 501 c3 non profit recently created to look into the district model in NJ, DE and Eastern PA. I know folks are working very hard on this.

Can you be honest and tell us how the Michigan District Model is working. We hear it is great. Please level with us.

What is working, what is not working, and what was completely missed?

Many thanks in advance...

Frank Larkin Director-at-Large
Mid Atlantic Robotics.

[mobilegamer999]

I am a from a Michigan team, and I was around from before the district model was used, and I would say, that it has major benefits and drawbacks. The biggest drawback is the extra cost to have to go to state and then to nationals. But the big advantage is the fact that limiting teams by a second level of competition makes for much more challenging opponents at nationals.

[GGCO]

I'm actually on the same team as mobilegamer, and would have to agree with him.

The added level(s) of competition are very beneficial as you get to perfect your game as the season progresses. The added time gives you a competitive advantage once you get to nationals, but as mobilegamer said the added cost of State and *potentially* Nationals is difficult for teams to pay. Especially in Michigan.

I honestly don't see why FIRST doesn't allow FIRSTInMichigan to run our own State championship - other than they enjoy lining their pockets. Costs would significantly decrease.

Other than that, the smaller district events are more exciting and fast paced. Also they feel more "local" - everyone knows each other. This makes these events feel more competitive and friendly. It's really cool to see a new member meet new people from different communities and schools.

[sgreco]

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 2 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. 3 events for a cheaper cost than 2 sounds like a deal to me.

My point is it's neither a drawback nor an advantage compared to the standard system elsewhere. If anything it's cheaper.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 3 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. That is cheaper, not more expensive.

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

[XaulZan11]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the cost of attending 3 regionals and the Championship Event significantly more expensive than 2 districts, State Championship and then the Championship Event? If so, wouldn't that be an advantage to the district model and not a drawback?

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

Yeah, but Districts aren't $4000 each like regionals are.

[mobilegamer999]

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP. Trust me, Michigan is cheaper.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

Outside the Michigan, the $4,000 gets you the KOP and only 1 regional event. One of the biggest reasons Michigan switched to the district was to reduce costs.

[Aren Siekmeier]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the cost of attending 3 regionals and the Championship Event significantly more expensive than 2 districts, State Championship and then the Championship Event? If so, wouldn't that be an advantage to the district model and not a drawback?

Only if you are one of the few teams who attend 3 regionals and the Championship every year (or pretty regularly anyway). That is a pretty small percentage of all the teams out there. For the teams who only attend their home regional every year, I'd think there's a huge advantage to going to a bigger regional event that potentially draws teams from elsewhere, as opposed to a small, local district event that just shelters them. It's a lot more inspiring to go a larger regional with some different people every year than just the same old district with the same old locals, and for the teams who have just attended the same old regional for years, having never attended Champs or tried something new, some inspiration might be in order.

On the other hand, the smaller district events do give a bit more playing time (I think?), and I think I've heard that Michigan attend a minimum of 2 district events? So maybe it's a wash.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP.

Okay, just looked at USFirst's website and I was wrong, I thought non-Michigan teams got 2 regionals, but in fact they only get one. So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events, however, registration is not the only expense, transportation, lodging and food can rack up a hefty difference between 2 and 3 events.

[nikeairmancurry]

The cost of the first two districts regionals is paid for through registration.. And each additional district is $500.00

The state championship is $4,000.00

Meaning doing three events in Michigan (2 districts and States) = 9,000.00

Doing three regionals outside of Michigan is about 15,000

Plus the State Championship is almost einstien level play..

Now for my own personal opinion... Since its start in 2009, there are two things that stick out more than anything, FIRST's growth in michigan and how many robots actually make it out to the field for ever match. The districts being held in highschool gyms make the competition seem that much more exciting. i would suggust this system to others because of the level of play has risen all around our state.

[Joe Ross]

A good place to start would be the Brandeis evaluation of FiM after the 2009 season. http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...Summary_09.pdf

90% of the respondents thought the cost of participation was the same or better than 2008. 86% thought the logistics were the same or better.

Team leaders and mentors estimated that the average team cost for the District Tournaments in 2009 was approximately $9900; costs for teams attending the State Championship averaged an additional $5900. Total estimated costs for all teams in 2009 were $12,000. Teams that participated in prior years estimated that their team budget in 2008 was $25,000.

There were lots of other topics covered also, all overwhelmingly favoring the district system.

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events.

No. You get 2 districts for and KOP for your entry (I think it's $5000). In order to do two regionals, you need to pay $5000 for the KOP and 1 regional, then another $4000 for your second. That's $9000 for 2 events. You are paying $5000. Michigan districts are cheaper.

2 districts and State champs is the cost of 2 regionals.

Edit: Nicholas beat me to it.