Michigan, be honest, how is the district model?

[lemiant]

Originally Posted by Karibou

that would be a possible championship of 1225 or 1450 teams, respectively*.

At that point there would need to be overlap 1450 is greater than the number of teams currently in FRC

[mesamb1]

Originally Posted by lemiant

At that point there would need to be overlap 1450 is greater than the number of teams currently in FRC

2011 FRC at a Glance has the number of teams at 2075 teams.
http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Rob..._AtAGlance.pdf

[DSM33]

personally i love the district system. although that's all I've known while on an FRC team, i think it aids FIRST's goal to make FRC a full-blown high school sport and get an FRC team in every high school. it allows the game to be played in a high school gym which is a huge help to spreading FIRST. it makes FRC more available to high schools in general.
i think a big point being missed here is that the districts don't need to be drawn at state lines. Michigan worked out that way because of the high concentration of teams in the state and the system could be modified to accompany multiple states or just certain regions for convenience

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by lemiant

At that point there would need to be overlap 1450 is greater than the number of teams currently in FRC

Well, of course there would be overlap anyways, what with teams such as 1114, 2056, 359, & co. consistently performing top-notch And, as usual, there will be teams who decide not to attend due to financial or travel reasons. The numbers that I gave were purely theoretical and should not be considered realistic

[GaryVoshol]

Kara's numbers do raise a point. The Championships have been running out of room. If new events are added as regionals with guaranteed entry slots, we will someday have too many winners from regionals to invite to Championships, and that day may not be far off. If we ever near the goal of having FRC available in every high school in the country, there will be no way that every regional can advance 6 teams to the Championships. There will need to be a dual-tier championship qualifying scheme. Perhaps this is what Bill's Blog is contemplating, not for 2012 necessarily, but sometime in our near future. FRC will look more like FLL, where most teams can only aspire to qualifying for the first level of championships, equivalent to the MSC.

The biggest hassle in all of this is making travel plans. If you don't know you're going to the Championship until 2 weeks before it happens, you certainly can't get good fares.

[Katie_UPS]

Are there any hidden down-sides to districts? Is it awful to have to win a regional twice to go to champs? How exactly are robots picked for champs? (I understand 3 state champs, 3 chairman's, 3 EI's, and 3 RAS... but aren't they supposed to send 18 teams because they replaced 3 regionals? Who are the other six then? How are they picked?)

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Katie_UPS

Are there any hidden down-sides to districts? Is it awful to have to win a regional twice to go to champs? How exactly are robots picked for champs? (I understand 3 state champs, 3 chairman's, 3 EI's, and 3 RAS... but aren't they supposed to send 18 teams because they replaced 3 regionals? Who are the other six then? How are they picked?)

First, it's not 3 IE's and 3 RAS's - it's 2 of 1 and 1 of the other, and I forget which is which right now.

That leaves 9 teams that still go. They are based on the point totals earned during the season - the 2 districts weighted 1/3, and the MSC rated 2/3.

What this does is give deserving teams - for example, a team that was a Finalist in MSC - a chance to qualify for the Championship.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

The thing I miss most in the District system is not getting to see out of state teams.

Originally Posted by Basel A

-While there is less interaction with outside teams, that results in more interaction with inside teams. When you see the same team at 2-4 events (even 5, possibly) in a season, there's more camaraderie. The end result is greater cooperation and fewer failing teams

Originally Posted by mesamb1

I would be curious to hear from the people who attend the New Jersey Regional and New York City Regional about how much diversity they see at their regional now.

I don't speak for my team here, just for myself.

The ONLY significant drawback to the district system is this lack of diversity. I highly cherish meeting teams from Israel, Brazil, Mexico, Canada, Turkey and several near and distant states. I see the kids getting a lot from it as well*. And as the world continues to get smaller in the professional world, understanding and accepting this diversity becomes more important at this stage.

All the other drawbacks are surmountable IMHO.

@Basel A: interesting take on camaraderie and reducing failing teams, that is something that had not occurred to me. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by gblake

Amen - Concentrations of teams do not respect state boundaries.

Yes, and so Mid-Atlantic Robotics does not use state lines as boundaries.

*Like teaching Brazilian kids how to play Extreme Duck-Duck-Goose, even with a steep language barrier. Or hearing how schools work in Mexico. Or just seeing that people are essentially the same, no matter where they're from.

[Joe G.]

Here's a thought on the "closed" nature of the district system.

It wouldn't really make sense to open district events up to teams from non-district regions. The qualification systems are completely different, and an outside team couldn't qualify for championship from the district. Additionally, it would arguably deny teams from the district region another chance to gain points.

But is there any reason that teams from a district region couldn't travel to outside regionals (as some already do), and earn points for it? At a regional, they play the same game, and earn the same awards. The events are usually as big, or bigger. The opposing teams are usually just as good. A team that can do this should be able to work closer to a state/region championship event.

Taking this further, once multiple district regions are setup, cross-registration could occur. Michigan teams could compete in Mid-atlantic districts, and vice versa, earning points towards their home region. And as more regions add the district system, FRC comes closer to letting anyone compete anywhere they want.

[DSM33]

Originally Posted by Joe G.

Taking this further, once multiple district regions are setup, cross-registration could occur. Michigan teams could compete in Mid-atlantic districts, and vice versa, earning points towards their home region. And as more regions add the district system, FRC comes closer to letting anyone compete anywhere they want.

but what separates this from the current regional system? i feel like that would be the same system taking place now (aside from Michigan) with just the addition of a local State Championship. i think the point of the district system would be to grow teams in a local environment so that teams could grow and thrive and increase the competitive nature of FIRST

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by DSM33

but what separates this from the current regional system? i feel like that would be the same system taking place now (aside from Michigan) with just the addition of a local State Championship. i think the point of the district system would be to grow teams in a local environment so that teams could grow and thrive and increase the competitive nature of FIRST

-An additional tier to go through for qualifying for championships, which in turn helps fine-tune the number of teams that qualify, allowing FIRST to keep championships at a reasonable size.

-Lower cost, district style events, giving teams more play time for the same price.

-More events, allowing teams to keep travel costs down if they wish to.


The fact is, most FIRST teams do not travel longer distances than they need to in order to compete, and stick to relatively local regionals, because its cheaper and easier. This wouldn't change, under a looser district system. The vast majority of Michigan teams would stick to Michigan, and the vast majority of mid-Atlantic teams would stay in the mid-Atlantic region. If a team wishes to, they can go outside their region and meet teams from far away, addressing the main complaint about the current system in this thread. I just don't think enough teams would leap up and run away from home to break the sense of community the district system creates.

[J_Miles]

Originally Posted by Joe G.

Taking this further, once multiple district regions are setup, cross-registration could occur. Michigan teams could compete in Mid-atlantic districts, and vice versa, earning points towards their home region. And as more regions add the district system, FRC comes closer to letting anyone compete anywhere they want.

I like the idea. I would have suggested the very same policy. It seems to me that no matter where a team competes, it should be able to accumulate points towards its own regional championship. This way, teams would compete against the best of the best teams in their own region to qualify for championship, but would also have the opportunity to compete against whoever they wish during the regular season events, traveling if they so chose or staying local if that was their preference.

[Lil' Lavery]

I'd be wary equating one district system to another at this point. They could have very different rules and structures.

[DonRotolo]

...and goals.

[pafwl]

FIRST has already said they want the same rules to apply to all districts. Otherwise how can they manage the computer system for registration.

To some extent I agree with this position but we can't run a competition at the bare minimum of what the computer programmer in FIRST can accomplish. As I have said a few times we have a lot of smart folks working with us who can write a system that can cover everything we want to do. We just have to get FIRST to listen.