What if Education was more like Video Games?

[davidthefat]

As previously mentioned, gaming is mostly built on reward systems. Whether it is new equipment, new levels, new skills or anything for that matter, it drives the player to pursue those goals. Unlike video games, where the rewards are very distinct and very incremental, the goals of education are very abstract. Whether it is college, a job, or even just the knowledge itself. They are either abstract or a very long term goal. A majority of highschoolers probably don't know what they want to do with their lives, which college to go to, what kind of job they want. If they do not have those goals set in mind, they really see no purpose in school. They go because "they have to". That is not what is going to motivate the students. Some find that motivation by competing with other students to get a higher grade or rank. That is admirable, but, as I stated before, it takes away from the true essence of education. Sure, I may have a romanticized ideal of education, but that, to me, is a better motivator. Some teachers try to incorporate some kind of reward system where it is stickers, extra credit, some kind of fake currency to "buy" prizes at the end of the month or anything like that. But I have noticed that while these may be good motivators, I see a deeper implication that I do not like. Some students get to the point that they become so obsessed for those extra points. I believe it promotes materialism. That is why I rebelled and refused to participate for those. I hurt myself in the process; the class was heavily based on participation and received a D in that class...

There really needs a better motivator for students, a better way to fuel their subconscious and give them a sense of purpose. Perhaps, give students more freedom and choices in class. I know I excel at those projects. I honestly feel proud of myself after completing those projects. Sure, I may feel proud when I get back a test and a 100% is on top of the page, but that pride is short lived. A project has more sentimental value. No one really cherishes their tests, but they cherish their projects forever. I still have my little stool I made in 8th grade in wood shop class. It is also evident in my choice of video games. My favorite games are the "sand box" games where you have the freedom to do anything e.g. The Elder Scroll Series, Gran Theft Auto. That is also the reason why this competition appealed to me; it has relatively few restrictions on design, while promoting safety.

I like how Dr. Richard Feynman puts it: "Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it." I believe that applies to education as well.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

There really needs a better motivator for students, a better way to fuel their subconscious and give them a sense of purpose. Perhaps, give students more freedom and choices in class. I know I excel at those projects. I honestly feel proud of myself after completing those projects. Sure, I may feel proud when I get back a test and a 100% is on top of the page, but that pride is short lived. A project has more sentimental value. No one really cherishes their tests, but they cherish their projects forever. I still have my little stool I made in 8th grade in wood shop class. It is also evident in my choice of video games. My favorite games are the "sand box" games where you have the freedom to do anything e.g. The Elder Scroll Series, Gran Theft Auto. That is also the reason why this competition appealed to me; it has relatively few restrictions on design, while promoting safety.

I'm a bit of a special case in these situations. I've always preferred tests over projects as far back as I can remember tests. I see tests as a strategy game. Figure out what the teacher will put on it and you succeed. It is about what to spend time on studying and actually understanding. For me, tests are the best motivator to learn. Projects usually devolve into alot of work for just a little bit of gain. I know that I'll do projects when I get a job but those projects will be using what I have learned. I just don't learn very well from projects. I really hope that school evolves to help students like David, but I also hope they don't forget students like me. Everyone learns best in their own way and often when a teacher tries to make things better for most, it makes things worse for me. I don't mean to be self-centered in pointing that out, but I certainly appreciate when teachers make it an optional change on a student by student basis. It'll be hard to take this into consideration, but it will be all the more worth while in the long run.

Also, I would like to recommend anyone interested in this idea to watch an anime called Baka to Test to Shōkanjū. I'm not sure if they ever dubbed it, but it is very short and worth the subtitles. The anime is based in a school where people are tested and placed into classes A through F. A being the best grades and F being the worst. The better the class, the better the equipment and classroom you get. Each student has an avatar that they can summon and do battle with. Its strength is dependent on your own skill in the subject of the teacher nearest. Classes can do battle with their avatars to move up in rank. Example: Class C beats Class B in a battle. They trade equipment, classrooms, and rank. The storyline follows class F(a group of misfits) on their quest to earn the equipment they deserve by defeating class A in battle. I know it all sounds weird, but it is an anime that directly connects academic ability with video games to promote motivation. It is the exaggerated version of what this thread is about. Definitely worth watching to anyone interested in the idea. To anyone that is curious but doesn't want to sit through the anime should PM me and I will answer questions.

Jason

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Molten

I'm a bit of a special case in these situations. I've always preferred tests over projects as far back as I can remember tests. I see tests as a strategy game. Figure out what the teacher will put on it and you succeed. It is about what to spend time on studying and actually understanding. For me, tests are the best motivator to learn. Projects usually devolve into alot of work for just a little bit of gain. I know that I'll do projects when I get a job but those projects will be using what I have learned. I just don't learn very well from projects. I really hope that school evolves to help students like David, but I also hope they don't forget students like me. Everyone learns best in their own way and often when a teacher tries to make things better for most, it makes things worse for me. I don't mean to be self-centered in pointing that out, but I certainly appreciate when teachers make it an optional change on a student by student basis. It'll be hard to take this into consideration, but it will be all the more worth while in the long run.

Jason

And your first paragraph illustrates the fact that there can never really be a "one size fits all" type of education. I know that each system has flaws. I know plenty of students that just studies to get an A on the test. My rote memorization skills are sub par, so I personally have to get the conceptual aspect before I can use the equations. It gets to the point that most teachers just say: "here is the equation, plug the numbers in and calculate the answer". Sure, that works, but does anyone in the class have any idea why that is that? No one in the class, even the teacher, had any idea how to derive the trig derivatives. Now, Richard Feynman is just a great guy, here is another quote from him: "You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something."

[Duke461]

Originally Posted by IKE

The current public education system reminds me quite a bit of an educational assembly line. The rate of the line in general is matched in order to maximize the time to educate vs. quality of education curve. For many the work is too slow. For many a comfortable pace, and for some likely a bit too quick. There is little ability to get ahead.

What if the education system was more like a video game? The specific type of video game would be the types of games that are essentially a series of challenges/problems/puzzles that challenge the user. The user has the ability to pass the problem usually with a variety of ratings. Guitar hero has 1-5 stars. Angry Birds is 1-3... In general the general levels might equate to "Grade Levels", and the stars = letter grades on the different problems.

Could this work? Would it only work for certain subjects? Personally I could see a system like this work pretty well for subjects like Math.

When I was in the 4th grade, we had "Electronic Book-shelf" which was essentially a reading competition that used tests on books as the competitive element, and the number of completed tests as teh metric by which prizes were given out. I was a slow reader and worked really hard to get to 25 books, where as most of the good students hit around 40-60, and a few exceptional readers made it between 125-150. This was good for getting students to read a lot of books, but you would get in trouble for sharing information about the tests and thus it discouraged general discussion about the very same books.

I would be curious as to what others think on this topic.

If my following idea is what you were originally trying to get at, i apologize, if not, here goes:
Similar to your rating idea, the video game style could allow students to "get ahead" of others. All would have to get through a "puzzle" to move on, but if one person finishes ahead of the other, they get to move on. The only problems i see with this is that the less intelligent kids might get discouraged, and there's really no end goal, because you cant give the smartest kid 2 weeks of no school because he finished ahead of time.

Nonetheless, the biggest problem with not having a "one size fits all" systems, is that everybody is becoming too sensitive in this world, especially parents of young kids in the school system. People get discouraged way too easily now just because they don't do one thing as well as someone else. And part of the reason that that's happening is because parents nowadays try to protect their kids from the real world for too long.

Hopefully avoiding redundancy,
-Duke

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

That is admirable, but, as I stated before, it takes away from the true essence of education. Sure, I may have a romanticized ideal of education, but that, to me, is a better motivator. Some teachers try to incorporate some kind of reward system where it is stickers, extra credit, some kind of fake currency to "buy" prizes at the end of the month or anything like that. But I have noticed that while these may be good motivators, I see a deeper implication that I do not like. Some students get to the point that they become so obsessed for those extra points. I believe it promotes materialism. That is why I rebelled and refused to participate for those. I hurt myself in the process; the class was heavily based on participation and received a D in that class...

There really needs a better motivator for students, a better way to fuel their subconscious and give them a sense of purpose. Perhaps, give students more freedom and choices in class.

You are without question romanticizing education, and that can be quite harmful. Formal education for the vast (and I mean vast) majority is not a lifelong quest but a means to an end. I understand that you never stop learning and that even when out of school you still learn things every day (in fact you probably learn more every day) however this is not where the education system fails, the smartest people in America still have opportunity, those that want to pursue academics for their entire life have as many if not more opportunities now than they did in the past, information is freely available like it never has been before. The problem is the 99% (made up number not a statistic) who do not want to learn for the sake of learning they want to learn for what it can give them. I loved school, I enjoyed going to school and learning every day, however I never had any intention of pursuing an advanced academic degree (M.S. M.F.A PhD etc.). I have had the goal of being an engineer (or for a while a scientist) since I was young. I knew for a long time that I needed to go to college and do well to meet that goal. That was my reward, it was big picture but that was it. The system is really failing the people who don't have that goal to motivate them. I had a friend in elementary school and JR High who wanted to be a Mechanic, his Dad was a Mechanic without a High School degree. My friend simply could not see why it was necessary for him to learn all of the things required of him that he wouldn't use. Academics never came easy to him and he didn't enjoy school. He could however be motivated by small rewards, we had uniforms, one teacher offered to allow us a day where we could wear what we wanted for those who completed all of their home work every month. That was enough to motivate him to complete that work. This type of reward was enough to motivate him. Of course there will always be that top tier of people (including Richard Feynman) who will be motivated strictly by the pursuit of knowledge. Unfortunately but realistically they are the exception, not the rule.

David,

I understand that most of what I typed agrees with your post. I think it is important that you recognize that there are all different types of motivation for people, some may be nobler than others but it is all a means to an end, as long as people are learning everyone is winning.

I believe your rebellion and lack of participation may be your rationalization of why you didn't want to do the work more than anything else. As with the reasons to do well there are many reasons to do poorly, some more noble than others but in the end you didn't to the work because you couldn't be bothered, when that happens, in the best case you are hurt by it, in most cases you as well as the people around you are hurt.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I think it is important that you recognize that there are all different types of motivation for people, some may be nobler than others but it is all a means to an end, as long as people are learning everyone is winning.

I agree with most of what is said. However, as long as it is a means to the end I don't believe anyone is "winning". Half the fun of a vacation is the journey to the destination. I always use the analogy of driving to Florida(might not work if you live in Florida). When driving to Florida, you can't focus on the sand. Focus on the road. Enjoy the moment your in rather then think about the moment you will enjoy in the future. If you don't do this, you will end up in a wreck. Just like in life, if you focus too much on the end rather then the means your life will end up in a wreck. You can always get out of it and you may enjoy the beach when you get there, but why be so focused on it that you can't enjoy where you are currently? As long as people suffer through education, it is still a work in progress. I've yet to meet a person that doesn't enjoy learning sometimes about something and there is no reason they can't enjoy learning other things if given the right situation. We just need to find that situation and use it. In short, I agree with what you say about having a goal to motivate you to go. But I'd hazard to say a person using education as a means to the end "won". Perhaps I am romanticizing education as well. If so, I'll keep these rose colored glasses for the rest of my life or until they break. Life is just better when you see the world in the right light.

Jason

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I believe your rebellion and lack of participation may be your rationalization of why you didn't want to do the work more than anything else. As with the reasons to do well there are many reasons to do poorly, some more noble than others but in the end you didn't to the work because you couldn't be bothered, when that happens, in the best case you are hurt by it, in most cases you as well as the people around you are hurt.

Yes, it is my way of rationalizing my laziness and the failure of me to address that issue was just a rationalization in itself. I already knew that, but I was actively suppressing that. Hopefully, next school year, I would not have this problem and actually be intellectually stimulated to actually try. I guess I just did not put forth the effort to make school more fun during the school year. The teachers were drab and boring; I did not try to change that. Attitude is everything; bad attitude just ruins everything. I mean when summer rolled around, I was more than happy to dive right into calculus and calculus based physics. I did not have that attitude during school mostly because it was "too much effort". Warning: more rationalization coming... During first semester, I would come home around 6 and have dinner, but I would be too exhausted from football practice that I would do skimpy work on my homework. Then after football season, I was playing "catch up". Since I was in more advanced classes I could not raise my grades up; the damage had already been done. It was like this for 3 years. The habits from first semester carried onto second. I hope to change that next school year. I had already quit football, so I am not even doing the summer practices. So I can finally fully "nerd out". I had not taken the right first steps in previous years; I hope to change that this year.