[BB] Bills Blog 07/08/11

[Cory]

Soon t-ball participation awards will be bigger than the FRC World Championship winner award

My understanding is that FIRST only actually pays for awards for the championship event and each regional is left to pay for their own awards. Someone feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

If that is the case, FIRST would be saving what, maybe $2,000 by chintzing out even more than they already have over the last 3 years? In the process they piss off nearly everyone. That makes perfect sense.

Sponsors, school administrators, etc all want to see the accomplishments of a team to justify giving them more money and support. The unfortunate reality is that the number one way of doing this is to show them a bunch of big old trophies. Every year the trophies get smaller it becomes less impressive to outsiders and those who only have a cursory knowledge of the program.

Yet again FIRST presents us with a "would you rather we poke you in the eye or kick you in the shins, and then charge you $6,000" scenario. Every year it costs more and more to get the same amount of value the kit/event contained 5 years ago (though we have gotten more matches, which is fantastic).

[BJC]

How about only one trophy of the current size for winning team and giving them the option of buying more to be sent via mail?

Cuts cost, keeps trophy size, and still allows teams to get extra trophies to give to sponsors/ schools/etc if they so choose.

Edit: trophies bought for manufacturing and shipping cost: no mark-up.

[avanboekel]

Trophy sizes should remain the same (or be enlarged). Like mentioned before, the size of a robotics trophy should be the same as for football and other major sports.

On another note, did anyone else catch the possible game clue?

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

...Everything is up in the air...

The possibility of an aerial game is interesting.

[mesamb1]

What about the 6 times the number of regional's as spots for championships?
352 at championship this year
minus 25(founding teams, chairman award winners, last years winners, and last years engineering inspiration winner)
divide by 6(winners, rookie allstars, inspiration, chairman award winners)
= about 55 regionals(not taking off for districts)
meaning FIRST is looking at having about 330 regionals!
that is a ridiculous amount of teams.
but we only had 27 regional in 2004, and next year we will put a strain on championship with all the new regionals.
At that number of teams districts wiil be able to be in every region

[lemiant]

Originally Posted by mesamb1

What about the 6 times the number of regional's as spots for championships?
352 at championship this year
minus 25(founding teams, chairman award winners, last years winners, and last years engineering inspiration winner)
divide by 6(winners, rookie allstars, inspiration, chairman award winners)
= about 55 regionals(not taking off for districts)
meaning FIRST is looking at having about 330 regionals!
that is a ridiculous amount of teams.
but we only had 27 regional in 2004, and next year we will put a strain on championship with all the new regionals.
At that number of teams districts wiil be able to be in every region

What he is saying is that that they are worried about the point in time where the number of spots at championships is lower than the number of teams that directly qualify. The number of teams with a guaranteed spot is equal to 6 times the number of regionals because the winning alliance (3 teams), Chairmains winner, Engineering Inspiration winner, and rookie all-start are all auto-qualified for championships.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by BJC

How about only one trophy of the current size for winning team and giving them the option of buying more to be sent via mail?

Cuts cost, keeps trophy size, and still allows teams to get extra trophies to give to sponsors/ schools/etc if they so choose.

Edit: trophies bought for manufacturing and shipping cost: no mark-up.

No offense, but NO.

FIRST has continued to cut costs and that has directly impacted the value that the teams receive. I think it's time they start taking a VERY VERY close look at their own organization, and looking at efficiencies, or lack thereof, before they go after one of the primary reasons (and reminders) of why so many teams compete.

Hey, you could move on to what Ford does now, and is roundly ridiculed. Email us digitally-signed certificates because paper, nevermind an actual award, is just far to expensive.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by lemiant

What he is saying is that that they are worried about the point in time where the number of spots at championships is lower than the number of teams that directly qualify. The number of teams with a guaranteed spot is equal to 6 times the number of regionals because the winning alliance (3 teams), Chairmains winner, Engineering Inspiration winner, and rookie all-start are all auto-qualified for championships.

It's time to consider removing the ability to attend championship without having qualified through some means.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by avanboekel

On another note, did anyone else catch the possible game clue?

The possibility of an aerial game is interesting.

Maybe a 2006 style high goal, or maybe taller robots

I hope they don't make the trophies smaller, maybe they could redesign it to be more impressive (possibly), larger (or at least the same size), and within their budget, whatever that happens to be.

[Chris is me]

I've been thinking about Champs.

Assume a 360 team maximum capacity. Subtract the World Champions (3), HoF (15), and Sustaining teams (6) and you get 336 spots.

Let's be conservative and reserve 6 spots for special additions to the Championship (i.e. the rare 4th regional winner), to round to an even 330.

Michigan has just under 180 teams in their district, and they get 18 spots at the Championship. Right now, all of FRC could fit in just 12 districts of that size. Account for a few years of growth and some odd-sized districts and say that we plan for 16 districts of 180 teams each. That's enough for 2880 teams, and at our rate of growth that will last us quite awhile.

If the only things that qualify you for the championship are those 16 districts, you only need 288 spots reserved. This leaves 42 spots for open registration, even assuming an ideal FRC that has 2,880 teams!

Not only that, but well over half of the event will be there based on their robot's performance, making the Championship more competitive AND more accessible.

[Wayne C.]

Originally Posted by waialua359

The trophies should instead be restored back to their original sizes.

Exactly. Whats the point of competing if you get nothing to bring home lauding your success? I thought the kids came first? Just being there isnt enough. Schools recognize coming home with a trophy.
When they shrunk the trophies a few years ago it was a mistake. I cant believe that for all the registration money collected this is the best way they can find to cut costs.

Maybe FIRST should look into better trophy suppliers than taking this direction.

[dag0620]

This is really making me begin to wonder where the moneys flowing.

Look I get it, this is not a cheap program, and it requires money. However, something just doesn't add up to me. We're paying about $5000 an event per team, there's thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars rolling in with sponsorship, a decent amount of the KOP is donated, and yet we're still getting less?

I really don't think the issue here is the money coming in. I think FIRST needs to take a big look at their budget and take a look at what there spending their money on and who there spending it with.

[XaulZan11]

If we are talking about efficiencies, giving out two trophies is NOT efficient as some (most?) teams won't 'use' both trophies. Perhaps FIRST should give out 1 trophy at the event but allow teams to order the second one at a discounted price or free. This way teams that want the second trophy (to give to sponsors) can still get it while FIRST doesn't have to pay for the second trophy if its just going to sit in a box.

FIRST does already allow teams to purchase additional medals, trophies and banners here: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...order_Form.pdf

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

If we are talking about efficiencies, giving out two trophies is NOT efficient as some (most?) teams won't 'use' both trophies. Perhaps FIRST should give out 1 trophy at the event but allow teams to order the second one at a discounted price or free. This way teams that want the second trophy (to give to sponsors) can still get it while FIRST doesn't have to pay for the second trophy if its just going to sit in a box.

FIRST does already allow teams to purchase additional medals, trophies and banners here: http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...order_Form.pdf

If that is the chosen route, I'd like to see the full size trophies come back.

[mesamb1]

Originally Posted by lemiant

What he is saying is that that they are worried about the point in time where the number of spots at championships is lower than the number of teams that directly qualify. The number of teams with a guaranteed spot is equal to 6 times the number of regionals because the winning alliance (3 teams), Chairmains winner, Engineering Inspiration winner, and rookie all-start are all auto-qualified for championships.

I understand how a team gets a spot at championships. What I was trying to illustrate is that in a world where championships is 6 times overflowing with teams will also be a world where we are having 330 regionals/events. Most of the problems I hear about districts for now is getting to an event that is close to outlier teams in a district(upper peninsula for Michigan, upstate new york when thinking a possible NYC district). Even if 30 regional are outside the U.S., that still allows for 6 regional a state. For this size having a district in your back yard and one you could get to easily would seem possible for every team

[ChuckDickerson]

Maybe FIRST just needs to contract with AndyMark for the trophies. I'm sure Andy would somehow be able to supply really cool big trophies for a fraction of whatever FIRST is paying whoever for them currently.