My Blog: Starting a Competitive New Team

[R.C.]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Not sure how necessary my advice is here, but I highly recommend the kop frame + AM shifters + AM wheels as a 6wd. That's a top tier level drivetrain.

Agreed,

http://www.simbotics.org/media/video...itbot-steroids

That might help.

-RC

[Chris is me]

I'm sure he's well aware of the Kitbot drivetrain - 3280 used a cool combination of IFI and AndyMark kit frame material to create their 8WD. After it took us weeks to machine sideplates for our 8WD, seeing their simple yet effective drivetrain was a huge "forehead slap" moment.

[jwfoss]

The best advice I could possibly give you is to not go at it alone. IMHO the real key to having a very competitive rookie year is to have experienced mentors to support the team. One mentor, even a "FIRST superstar" is not enough.

This past year was my first year mentoring frc2168, myself and another former frc229er (Clarkson University Alumni), joined up to see how we could help. Yes we brought alot of experience but the hardest thing was getting everyone on the same page. Explaining the roles of different people at competition, the importance of robust design, simplicity, and strategy. The culture change we helped to create made the team much stronger. One of the first things one of the head mentors said to me was "we're kind of like a 3rd year rookie"...

I can definitly say that this was the most tiring year i've been involved in the program. Don't spread yourself too thin...

Establish the correct ideals right away; and the rest should fall into place.

[JamesBrown]

I just updated with a post about how I think being a competitive rookie can be accomplished, it should give you guys a better idea of where I am coming from and give you an idea of what advice I need.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Not sure how necessary my advice is here, but I highly recommend the kop frame + AM shifters + AM wheels as a 6wd. That's a top tier level drivetrain.

Originally Posted by R.C.

Agreed,

http://www.simbotics.org/media/video...itbot-steroids

That might help.

-RC

I am a huge fan of the KitBot chassis, I would expect the team to use it provided there aren't any surprises as far as field terrain goes. Out of the seven bots I have been directly involved with I believe only one did not use the kit chassis (and I could argue it probably should have).

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I'm sure he's well aware of the Kitbot drivetrain - 3280 used a cool combination of IFI and AndyMark kit frame material to create their 8WD. After it took us weeks to machine sideplates for our 8WD, seeing their simple yet effective drivetrain was a huge "forehead slap" moment.

You are right Chris I am familiar with creating a solid drive train with the kit frame, while Miki Oliver gets credit for most of that design I would not be surprised to see something similar for this new team.

I firmly believe that what we had started with 3280 was the start of a good program. Unfortunately out of the 4 original mentors 3 of us have since found new jobs (4 if you include the mentor who replaced me in working on the software) Hopefully despite most of us relocating Miki can keep things going in Providence.

Originally Posted by jwfoss

The best advice I could possibly give you is to not go at it alone. IMHO the real key to having a very competitive rookie year is to have experienced mentors to support the team. One mentor, even a "FIRST superstar" is not enough.

This past year was my first year mentoring frc2168, myself and another former frc229er (Clarkson University Alumni), joined up to see how we could help. Yes we brought alot of experience but the hardest thing was getting everyone on the same page. Explaining the roles of different people at competition, the importance of robust design, simplicity, and strategy. The culture change we helped to create made the team much stronger. One of the first things one of the head mentors said to me was "we're kind of like a 3rd year rookie"...

I can definitly say that this was the most tiring year i've been involved in the program. Don't spread yourself too thin...

Establish the correct ideals right away; and the rest should fall into place.

I defiitely know where you are coming from and I will be careful not to over commit. I think that because we are starting new if we get our stuff together out of the gate we should be in good shape long term.

[lwhipker]

We're just starting our "Rookie +1" year. We had 3 new community-based teams in our county this year (2 split from a previous team so not formally rookies but rookie in terms of starting new organizations and our team which was 100% rookie -- mentors, students, parents) and 2 veteran school-based teams. The 3 community-based teams were extremely different in terms of how they were organized, values, purpose/goals, roles of the mentors, roles of the parents, the perspective of the student role, etc. Each team is different and that's one of the strengths of FIRST.

The following are some observations/tips from our experience (of course, every team has their own FRC journey!). Hopefully some of this is helpful.

What we've found in our area is that one of the differences between a school-based/ corporate-sponsored team and a community-based team is that, as a community-based team just getting started, you have to count on lots and lots of support for all aspects of the team from people who share your vision -- build location, general meeting location, money, students who share your vision, parents to support the growth of the team, mentors who are there every night and weekends ("full time technical mentors" who are often engineering parents) as well as the part-time mentors who bring specific expertise. One person can't do this alone.

For us, it was critical to have a very well-laid out handbook of expectations, mission, goals, and values of the team so the people joining the team knew what they were joining and knew we were counting on their support. To ensure their support, we needed them to buy into the team vision.

On your blog, you talk about:
"I would not be satisfied with a season that doesn’t include qualifying for Championships."

To achieve that, I'm guessing you want competitive, driven students who are joining the team to create a winning robot. If that really is your goal, you probably need to be very clear about that up front so that is the type of student and parent you attract. We got some great information from Team Rush (22) at the workshops in St. Louis about having students go through a membership application process to show that they were a good fit with a written-out, well-defined profile of a "Team Rush Student." Makes it easier for the student, mentors and the team organizers to have a good fit.

The other thing we learned was to not underestimate the time of forming a team (which is really multiple "teams") -- the students, the mentors, the parents (who will likely be the backbone of the sustainability of the program), and all combinations. Think about what type of value system you want to set within the team and make sure that's clearly presented before the team gets started so everyone's working off the same page when things get intense.

You might also let the students define what success is to them after they form a team. Our students defined 3 levels of success before we went to our first regional: satisfied, excited and thrilled. We ended up far exceeding all 3 levels but the coach and mentors' measure of success showed up last night when we had an Open House/New Member meeting and all the students presented comfortably, enthusiastically, with good knowledge of all aspects of the robot, and with an overall understanding of GP/coopertition/outreach/learning. They were also very clear on the commitment level they were looking for from students who wanted to join the team for next year. It was very cool to see and fit with our team's mission.

Good luck with Year 1! I tried to blog our journey but it went by so fast and furiously that I quickly lost track of the days and tasks accomplished!

********************************
Rookie Year success based on our goals/objectives (12 students):

• 3 students who discovered new career goals and interests
• 3 different students who identified career interests that they weren't interested in after all, after trying them out for a bit
• 4 students who were reluctant to even speak at their first team meeting who are now leading FRC demo's at a local Space Camp
• 4 students who found technical mentors who really changed their worlds and outlook
• 1 student who achieved his dream of getting both Woody and Dean on video saying "Go Team PyroTech"
• 100% team alumni heading to university/Carnegie Melon (1 student )
• all member families returning for a second year with the exception of 1 family who is heading off in different life directions
• 80% of students now reading their emails on a regular basis in order to keep up on what's going on
• Oh, and for our team, the frosting on the cake: NC All-Star Rookie; NC Highest Seeded Rookie

[Kims Robot]

Several Years ago Karthik and I began collaborating on a document we were calling "Building Power Rookies"... with an intent to include not only the FIRST type guidelines, but to go beyond that, into how to build a ridiculously successful rookie team. With 1511's 6 Awards their Rookie year (inc Champ Rookie All Star), and Karthik's conglomerate of canadian powerhouses, we felt we could mash it all together and document how, in ideal conditions, to make a powerhouse team the likes of MOE or HOT in one year.

The track here seems to be more along the lines of the parts Karthik was filling in (the technical powerhouse), but I can provide some of the highlights of the part I was writing...

#1 Start as early as possible. 1511 was founded (meaning I had school & sponsor on board) by February of 2004 in prep for the 2005 season. It gave me a head start and plenty of time to plan.

#2 Gather your mentors as early as possible. Starting early gave me the entire summer to work with the mentors before we started recruiting students. We defined who would run subteams, had mentors sign up to lead team meetings that did either trainings (ie electrical, pneumatics, etc) or engineering teambuilders (spaghetti bridge, newspaper tower).

#3 Bring in Outside Experts. In addition to the mentor run trainings, we had SparX (1126) come and do a drivetrain presentation for us, I had Clarkson (229) come down and do a full day of mechanical design on a Saturday (which I think was the foundation for a lot of JVN's presentations?) we had XCats come in and show off their robots.

#4 Plan to Win. This seems silly, but how many teams qualify for champs and then scramble like crazy to figure out funding, plane tickets, everything else, all while trying to prep for a brand new event? If you have as much as possible done ahead of time, it will be much much easier on the team. Check and see what cancellation policies are, book everything you can, and have your money ready!

#5 Don't Discount Fundraising. We were lucky to secure a good sponsor our first year, but needed to figure out travel. I kicked off our Patron Drive based on the model I helped form on Aces High (176). We raised over $12,000 in patrons alone. If you plan to win (#4), you need to be able to fund your winnings!

And a couple of notes:
Going it Alone: Justin mentioned not going it alone, and that is certainly great advice. If you can have one person act as a team leader/program manager, and the other act as a technical director, you have a great shot. With only one, you can certainly build an incredibly strong team towards either technical or rookie all star, but it can be tough to do both. I founded both 229 and 1511 alone, so it can be done, but 1511 did well technically their first year, with a 5th seed at Buckeye and winning Toronto. But we certainly would have been stronger with a second in command that had FRC experience.

Making it to Champs: I still dispise that as a Rookie you have to qualify, there are some rookie teams that are much stronger than veteran teams, and so many rookies really get "hooked" by attending champs. Anyways... rant aside, my number one goal in founding 1511 was for my kids to see the championship event. We talked about it, we fundraiser it with it in mind, and I sat down to figure out exactly the best way to get us there. Sure it would be awesome to win a regional, but there is a LOT of risk in that. Some of the best teams run up against good competitors, or have one match of bad luck and get stuck in the draft. Its near impossible to guarantee. But, I would argue that its actually not anywhere near as difficult to build a Regional Rookie All Star... Do some math - only the Rookies are eligible for the award, so the field is much much smaller. At some regionals, there are only one or two! If you plan and fundraise, you can go to multiple regionals and have multiple shots. So the best way I could think of to get my kids to champs was to build a Rookie All Star and give ourselves the best shot possible... attend 3 regionals. We went to FLR, OH & TOR. It was crazy, we stayed in some cheap hotels, but it was fun! And we won not one but two tickets to championships! (FLR RAS & TOR Win). Anyways, it depends on your goal. If your goal is to go technical, go for it! If your goal is to make it to champs, RAS is an easier ticket...

Anyways, I'll see if I can dig up the old document and see if we had any other useful guidelines written up.. and maybe one of these days we will finish it

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Kims Robot

.. and maybe one of these days we will finish it

That would be very cool.

Jane

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

That would be very cool.

Jane

I agree 100%.

Kim, Thank you for you’re in depth reply. 1511 is certainly one of the teams that I would be striving to emulate. 1511 was national rookie all-stars my rookie year, after you guys won in Atlanta I became fascinated by the team and have paid attention to what you have been doing. I really wanted to see what the difference was between the good rookie teams and the elite ones.

I agree 100% that RAS is the best way to get to Champs. I think my post may have been misleading, most of what I outlined was technical because that is what the posts and PMs I was getting were addressing. I definitely intend for the team to be competitive for the RAS award, at least at the regional level. I have found that the points judges seem to look for the most in selecting a rookie all-star are, sustainability, Engineering Inspiration, and what the team does outside of the 6 week build season. I hope to address all three of these points in the next few days on the blog so I can get feedback.

[Bob Steele]

This is a great undertaking.
Just remember that building a robot and being competitive on the field is the least of your worries your first year.

You need to plan for continued success. Build a base of a good team.
Organization, fundraising, the support infrastructure, team comradarie, team image... the fundamentals of sustainability.

If you base a team on how well you do on the field you have a much harder time winning.

If you base a team on building a team that enjoys working and playing hard together you will always be a winner. Rejoice in your team's accomplishments no matter what they are. Have fun. Always look out to help others and the community. These are the hallmarks of a truly great team.

Good luck!!

[Phoenix Spud]

Quick question(s)...

How do you define competitive? In terms of the robot or outreach/chairmans?

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Spud

Quick question(s)...

How do you define competitive? In terms of the robot or outreach/chairmans?

Both, I think it is important for a team to be well rounded. I am all for the teams that do everything they can just to get a robot on the field and consider making eliminations a successful competition who along the way have an impact on their students and communities. However I believe it is easier to inspire students if the team is high performing on field.

I have a couple of posts typed up but I can't get on wordpress from work and I haven't been home much the last couple of days.

[nlknauss]

I was a team mentor for 5 years before starting a team at my current school district. The biggest thing I can take away from my experience so far as a team leader is that you have to think of yourself as a manager. I think of baseball where the manager has his pitching, hitting, and bench coaches we may have a mechanical, electrical, and software leads here in robotics. With that, you can't have your hands in everything (you don't have enough) so you need to build a mentor core and student leadership group that will drive the team itself.

Nate