Best Team Never To Win at Championships?

[lemiant]

I like that 1114 is the ONLY team with four digits to ever win championship.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Wow, no team founded during the 2004 season or later has won champs...

You could say that no team founded in the modern era has won champs. It could say something about the effects of 6 teams on the field (or far more likely, just the time required for a team to mature).

[JesseK]

I'm not so sure that we can postulate that # of regional wins can constitute a 'best', though it does show a few interesting numbers.

For instance, in the era post-coopertition it's been the best alliance that wins rather than the best team. While I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of 233/2056, it's well known (at least in the Fantasy FIRST world) that 233 teamed up with 179 in Florida for several of their wins and 2056 teamed up with 1114 in several of their wins.

I wonder if there's any merit in stipulating 'unique regional alliance pairings', where 2 members of a winning alliance have never allied before. Someone call Booz|Allen and tell them we need a consult...

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by JesseK

For instance, in the era post-coopertition it's been the best alliance that wins rather than the best team. While I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of 233/2056, it's well known (at least in the Fantasy FIRST world) that 233 teamed up with 179 in Florida for several of their wins and 2056 teamed up with 1114 in several of their wins.

This is true--anyone who saw the Einstein finals over the past two years knows the importance of three strong robots.

That said, when you're on a level of 233 and 2056, when you're talking 20 trips to the medal round in the former's case, when you're talking 12 gold medals and the only in-season tournament loss being Einstein in the latter's, I think you set a standard that is beyond coincidence or dumb luck. (This goes double in Pink's case, as many of their wins have come on the road in far-flung locales including Pacific Northwest, New York City, Colorado, Boston, Hawaii, and Washington DC.)

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by JesseK

I'm not so sure that we can postulate that # of regional wins can constitute a 'best', though it does show a few interesting numbers.

For instance, in the era post-coopertition it's been the best alliance that wins rather than the best team. While I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of 233/2056, it's well known (at least in the Fantasy FIRST world) that 233 teamed up with 179 in Florida for several of their wins and 2056 teamed up with 1114 in several of their wins.

I wonder if there's any merit in stipulating 'unique regional alliance pairings', where 2 members of a winning alliance have never allied before. Someone call Booz|Allen and tell them we need a consult...

233 and 179 paired up in 2005, 2009, and 2011. They won all three times (their FIRST info page seems to have them losing in the finals in 2005, when they in fact won).

Pink won Florida without 179 in 2008. All of their non Florida victories (Colorado, Boston, Washington DC, Hawaii, New York, PNW) came without 179.

By that same logic, 1114 shouldn't be as highly accredited because they they keep winning with either 2056 or 1503.

[dodar]

Pink and Swampthing made it to Einstein Finals in 2007 also.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

By that same logic, 1114 shouldn't be as highly accredited because they they keep winning with either 2056 or 1503.

Everyone knows 1114 isn't all they are cracked up to be. The numbers mean nothing.

Jason

Please note the sarcasm above. I wouldn't want 1114 to hold a grudge against any team I might be affiliated with. Afterall, they are one of the best teams out there.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

233 and 179 paired up in 2005, 2009, and 2011. They won all three times (their FIRST info page seems to have them losing in the finals in 2005, when they in fact won).

Pink won Florida without 179 in 2008. All of their non Florida victories (Colorado, Boston, Washington DC, Hawaii, New York, PNW) came without 179.

By that same logic, 1114 shouldn't be as highly accredited because they they keep winning with either 2056 or 1503.

Arguably, Pink only won Florida in 2009 because of 179/1649. Actually, I don't think even Pink would argue that point, it was simply an off year for them. Yes, Pink deserves more credit overall than was implied.

However, I was more trying to point out that a simple ranking based upon data points that aren't additively independent between alternatives is more "interesting" than it is conclusive. OPR addresses additive independence within a Regional. Yet it's unreliable when comparing robots between regional events, so I presume it's a stretch to try to normalize it year-to-year.

If anything, this thread is a great history lesson.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Arguably, Pink only won Florida in 2009 because of 179/1649. Actually, I don't think even Pink would argue that point, it was simply an off year for them. Yes, Pink deserves more credit overall than was implied.

However, I was more trying to point out that a simple ranking based upon data points that aren't additively independent between alternatives is more "interesting" than it is conclusive. OPR addresses additive independence within a Regional. Yet it's unreliable when comparing robots between regional events, so I presume it's a stretch to try to normalize it year-to-year.

If anything, this thread is a great history lesson.

2009 was far from Pink's finest year. I don't think anyone would argue that. And Florida is usually their weakest event (as it's their first, and constant iteration, evolution, and improvement during the season is one of their hallmarks). That's really the only year you could argue that they were "carried" in the eliminations in Florida.

While I agree it's definitely possible that raw data to lead someone astray in this conversation. I think you picked a poor example, though. Pink passes any and all "eyeball checks" regarding this topic. They have a handful of the greatest FRC bots ever created, especially their machines from 2005 and 2007. Seeing MOE and Pink battle for the #1 seed then eventually the regional victory at the 2001 Philadelphia regional is one of my most poignant memories from that era of FIRST. They've had consistent success across many different regionals and at the Championship event.

Any metric you want to apply to Pink, they will pass with flying colors. Pun intended.