9th garde in the FRC?

[msimon785]

I speak from an unusual standpoint.
I started FRC (yes, FRC) when I was in 7th grade. During the same year, I was in the school's Lego robotics class. As such, I had a chance to work with both FRC and "FLL" in the same year. This being said, I think that there is *nothing* wrong with younger students on an FRC team. Lego is beneficial, but there comes a point at which a student grows out of it.

I was actually at the Israel Regional in 2010, as a freshman, and (while Yarden can attest it was a huge fiasco that most FRCers don't know about) I noticed that about 10% or so of the students there were also in 9th grade, though I am probably off by 2 or 3 percent, either way.

I suggest that you organize a way to bring your principle to the Nokia Center for the 2012 regional. It is amazing how much going to an FRC event can change an administrator's standpoint on robotics.

Apart from that, I think Eric H's suggestion is the best yet. It will sound like an attractive idea to your principle because it is not definitive. It allows for one year of trial before deciding either way.

1) Currently, only 2 FLL teams can be fielded (20 slots). Reserve some of the slots for 9th graders.
2) Allow a limited number of 9th graders on the FRC team for one year as a trial basis.
3) Concurrently with 2, allow 9th graders in FLL. They get to choose which level they're at--barring age issues, of course. (Some of them should be in both, ideally.)

After the one year, re-evaluate. Get input from the 9th graders at both levels on what they liked and disliked. At that point, you can:
-increase FLL support to add a third team
-allow 9th graders in FRC on a more permanent basis
-assign 9th graders to mentor FLL teams

With that being said,
בהצלחה!!

[GaryVoshol]

The international upper age of 16 for FLL was established because there is so little availability of FRC outside North America. As Israel is an exception and does have FRC, you might be able to convince your school that FLL is more appropriate for the younger ages.

[yarden.saa]

many good suggestion that I will try to claim,
our principal was at every regional comppetition since 2005/2006 (she had another team in her last school), she is very supportive but very conservative(FRC should be to high school and FLL should be to middle school....)

thanks!!!

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by yarden.saa

many good suggestion that I will try to claim,
our principal was at every regional comppetition since 2005/2006 (she had another team in her last school), she is very supportive but very conservative(FRC should be to high school and FLL should be to middle school....)

thanks!!!

So by this comment, are you saying that 9th grade is a part of middle school? Clarifying that would be helpful.

Jane

[msimon785]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

So by this comment, are you saying that 9th grade is a part of middle school? Clarifying that would be helpful.

Jane

Quoted from Wikipedia:

In Israel, the tenth grade is the first year of the high school, which lasts three years (high school is called Tichon), except in some cities (such as Ramat Gan and Giv'atayim), where elementary school ends at 8th Grade and High School starts at 9th Grade.

It seems that yes, 9th grade in Israel is middle school. I'm actually a little surprised I didn't know that.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by msimon785

It seems that yes, 9th grade in Israel is middle school.

Then, a different approach as far as offering suggestions and advice might be needed. For example - one might state that in countries like the U.S., many of the FRC teams are formed in the high schools, grades 9th - 12th. There are teams that form with members that come from home schools, 4-H clubs, Scouts, and private schools. On some of those teams, middle school students can be found.
--
Are the middle schools and high schools in separate locations and are they in the same districts? By that I mean, here in the U.S., the public schools are in the same school district and the middle schools typically feed into their area high school. So, would a 9th grade student from a middle school automatically join their area high school?

Jane

[Chris Fultz]

I noticed on another team's website that they had "apprentice" members.

Maybe an option could be that 'regular' members are grades 10-12 and then 9th grade students can be apprentices.

//snipped//

[gblake]

If FTC or VRC competition was available, and if I was in 7th-9th grade, and if I was told that my school would only let me compete on an FLL team; I would simply form an FTC or VRC team on my own (separate from the school), and enjoy the result.

I have never met a 7th, 8th or 9th grade student in my travels (I have never visited Israel) who would prefer FLL over FTC or VRC.

I am constantly surprised by the upper age limit on FLL. I know that cost plays a part in that situation; but even so, I remain surprised by how old some FLL students are.

I urge you to consider joining one of the intermediate programs (VRC or FTC). Instead of arguing with the school, help grow STEM robotics in your community by offering a 3rd (and 4th?) choice.

Blake

[elemental]

Originally Posted by gblake

I have never met a 7th, 8th or 9th grade student in my travels (I have never visited Israel) who would prefer FLL over FTC or VRC.

Funny you should mention those grades as I participated in FLL those years. It was a great experience for me and I am unsure that I would have like FTC or VRC better since those programs do not include a research project. (As far as I am aware.)
FLL in 9th grade was a fit for me.

However, I think giving students a choice is ideal since more mechanically-minded students might want a bigger challenge.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by elemental

Funny you should mention those grades as I participated in FLL those years. It was a great experience for me and I am unsure that I would have like FTC or VRC better since those programs do not include a research project. (As far as I am aware.)
FLL in 9th grade was a fit for me.

However, I think giving students a choice is ideal since more mechanically-minded students might want a bigger challenge.

No argument here - I didn't say an older student that prefers the FLL program is wrong - I just don't recall having met any (except possibly through this exchange).

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by gblake

I just don't recall having met any (except possibly through this exchange).

From a judging perspective at various FLL events, I've noticed that the older students consistently act as quiet leaders in various ways - often serving as quiet role models and stabilizers for the team as it moves through the presentations. FLL teams are made up of all sorts of age variations - sometimes with the majority being on the young side, sometimes with the majority being on the older side, sometimes with a mix. The mix usually showcases the team well with the older team members (and their experience) helping the team play to its strengths while presenting.

Just an .02
Jane

[yarden.saa]

our middle school and high school are in the same place behind the same fence but from some reasons the schools are "acting" as seprated schools.
Elementary school - grades 1-6
Middle school - grades 7-9
High school - grades 10-12

There are many students from 9 grade that want to be in the FRC, when I was at 9 grade I was in the FLL but it was a bit easy and not challanging, that's why I want to change it...

[akoscielski3]

Grade 9 is a great year to introduce students to FRC, in this year we usually train them all in the section they have applied for( ex. mechanical, electrical). If i wasnt in FRC during grade 9 then i would not have been able to do the amount of work i did this year. (most of the robot was made by me)