Why choose FRC instead of FTC?

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by EricH

Attracting students: Right there, that's something that you can point out. More students means more inspiration, better scores in math and science, and stuff like that. (I assume that the administration would like better scores--if nothing else, it makes their school look better.)

Do we have any concrete proof that participation in FIRST at any level increases Math and Science scores? Further more you would need to prove that there isn't a way to get more kids involved with FTC or that FTC wouldn't offer the same benefits.

Originally Posted by EricH

There is another thing that could convince the school administration... Try building an FTC-scale T-shirt launcher, and demo it for them. Now build an FRC-scale T-shirt launcher, and do the same demo.

I am not sure what this will prove, I don't think any one in their administration will say that the FRC bot is not significantly cooler than the FTC bot. The question isn't is one bot more capable than the other, or is one robot bigger (thus more capable of throwing a t-shirt) than the other, the question they need to answer is what justifies the thousands of extra dollars in cost to run one program instead of the other.

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

The big robots are sexy.

Face it, FTC is small and slow compared to the big boys. Given the choice between professional hockey and the pewee leagues I know which one I'm watching.

Much the same as my response to EricH's post, administrators don't care how sexy the robots are, from their perspective it is costing a lot more money and they believe the increased benefits are marginal at best (I have no connection with 3780 but this is a common arguement for doing only FTC.

As far as the hockey analogy it is flawed in many ways. First, FTC and Vex teams are not inherently worse at building and competing than FRC teams are. This means it is not fair to compare it to Pro and peewee hockey. You are putting a simmilar quality team on the field whether the team participates in FTC or FRC (they are the same students from the same school) you wouldn't pay for a amatuer team to play in NHL level facilities while they are trying to develop as players, by the same token you don't need to pay for the students to do FRC then they can learn the game in FTC.

Originally Posted by GCentola

I think some schools also use FTC as a sort of "JV" team and FRC as the "Varsity" level team.

Good luck, i hope you can keep FRC!

This may work to help develop students in some of the bigger FIRST programs, however a small team (the OP said they have ~15 students) would be stretched thin to compete in both. Never mind the fact it only adds to the problem, now you are incurring the cost of both programs.

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I suggest:

*****I cut this part out to make this post slightly less long, I agree with everything Jane said here*****

These are some of the areas that you and the team should look at and spend some time thinking about. You should prepare yourselves well and address the concerns of the administration in a professional and informed manner.

It's about more than the robot. Much more.

Jane

I may have come across earlier in this post as not being in favor of keeping FRC, it is quite the opposite actually. I believe my real point is the same as Jane's You need to sit down as a team and outline the differences between when you had just FTC and now when you have FRC. What did you learn in FRC that you didn't in FTC (I have found budgeting and part/material selection are two important lessons). Do you have any engineering support now that you didn't before? Would you lose those engineers as mentors if you went back to FTC? You need specific benefits to the program, and these are going to vary from team to team.

One question I do have for you Oliver, do you receive funding from the school? If you do you guys might want to look into raising that money on your own, if you are draining school funds in a time when schools are being forced to cut programs then it will be tough for the administration to support you. However if you are bringing money and corporate interest in to the school to support your program then the administration is much more likely to support the team.