Why choose FRC instead of FTC?

[Bob Steele]

I believe that the biggest difference in FRC and FTC is the mentor participation.
I am only speaking in generalities here but FRC teams need more support from mentors than FTC teams. It is relatively easy to put together an FTC robot and little fabrication is generally done. It can and is done by student teams without much support from mentors.

There are FRC teams that have only students putting together robots but the real magic of FIRST is in putting together a team of Mentors AND Students working together...

This increases excitement and in the end produces the result that FIRST was founded on. That is to Inspire students....

FIRST has never been about teaching students to build robots. It is really about Students learning that they are capable of extraordinary things when working on a team. It inspires them by putting them in contact with active professional engineers that help them.

There are many great FTC teams that do similar things but it is nearly impossible to operate an FRC team without mentor support. This is by design.

[linuxboy]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I believe that the biggest difference in FRC and FTC is the mentor participation.
I am only speaking in generalities here but FRC teams need more support from mentors than FTC teams. It is relatively easy to put together an FTC robot and little fabrication is generally done. It can and is done by student teams without much support from mentors.

There are FRC teams that have only students putting together robots but the real magic of FIRST is in putting together a team of Mentors AND Students working together...

This increases excitement and in the end produces the result that FIRST was founded on. That is to Inspire students....

FIRST has never been about teaching students to build robots. It is really about Students learning that they are capable of extraordinary things when working on a team. It inspires them by putting them in contact with active professional engineers that help them.

There are many great FTC teams that do similar things but it is nearly impossible to operate an FRC team without mentor support. This is by design.

I'm really intrigued about your point about mentors. This past year I was relatively mentor independent (in my opinion) with programming and electrical. I viewed my mentors more as people to consult when something goes wrong or I can't figure something out after working on it for a while myself. That is not to say they didn't inspire me, I just only asked them questions when I had exhausted my knowledge.

How do you think the use of mentors should work and how many a team should have? I ask because one of the concerns over next year is the number of mentors.

- Oliver

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by linuxboy

How do you think the use of mentors should work and how many a team should have? I ask because one of the concerns over next year is the number of mentors.

- Oliver

The role of mentors on teams is the single biggest hot button topic in FIRST. I would urge you to search on the forums for the opinions of many others as soon as the topic is brought up it quickly evolves into a Student-Built v.s. Engineer Built debate and the discussion never goes anywhere.

As for my opinion, listen to the EWCP podcast where they interview Karthik, he talks about how they use mentors. Love 1114 or hate them they have gotten the school and community to buy into the program and made it sustainable which is your goal.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

The role of mentors on teams is the single biggest hot button topic in FIRST.

I have to ask. Why, in your opinion is this true ?

Keyword is "WHY".

.

[JesseK]

You, or your mentors, need to show your Administration how your FRC team will outlast the Administration's budget cuts. From their perspective, if a program is unsustainable cost-wise it doesn't matter how many students it attracts. Additionally, if you can't attract as much as another sport, why should they fund you? Seeking corporate sponsorship is how we do it.

I'm simply pointing out their perspective, and will leave it up to you to show them a new paradigm (academics has much greater ROI than sports, etc).

As for mentors -- generally speaking, so long as the students get hands-on experience then don't worry about what other teams think about your team's mentoring process. If you focus on your team, then your students will benefit from it. If you pay attention to every nut job on ChiefDelphi, you'll never reach a decision.

[linuxboy]

Originally Posted by JesseK

You, or your mentors, need to show your Administration how your FRC team will outlast the Administration's budget cuts. From their perspective, if a program is unsustainable cost-wise it doesn't matter how many students it attracts. Additionally, if you can't attract as much as another sport, why should they fund you? Seeking corporate sponsorship is how we do it.

I'm simply pointing out their perspective, and will leave it up to you to show them a new paradigm (academics has much greater ROI than sports, etc).

As for mentors -- generally speaking, so long as the students get hands-on experience then don't worry about what other teams think about your team's mentoring process. If you focus on your team, then your students will benefit from it. If you pay attention to every nut job on ChiefDelphi, you'll never reach a decision.

Yeah, I didn't mean to hit on a hot button topic. The funding is not the problem we are having with the school, its the permission to have FRC instead of FTC for the school robotics team. I do see the point though about putting resources into something with fewer people than some of the sports teams (although there might be some small sport teams at my school, I'm not really sure)

[Chris is me]

Who is making the decision? The teachers in charge of the program or the administration?

[linuxboy]

The administration and the extracurricular program coordinator at the school.

[GaryVoshol]

Wasn't Rhode Island one of the states with a governor gung-ho behind FIRST? Or maybe it was another high-ranking official, a senator or representative. I recall Dean giving him one of the Segway-based wheelchairs that could raise up so the user was on eye level with other people.

You might seek help from higher sources to convince your school administration of the value of the program.

[ebarker]

Originally Posted by linuxboy

Yeah, I didn't mean to hit on a hot button topic.

I don't really think the mentor topic is a 'hot button' issue with 98% of the world.

You are exactly correct in that fundraising is a part of any enterprise, for-profit, or non-profit. As everyone know, FRC is about a LOT more than just building a robot.

My impression is the administration "doesn't value the program". They probably view it as a narrow "technology tinker club" and not as a life changing, enterprise sized, small business in a room situation.

Your team needs to create a "value explanation". The team will have to show the admin that this is an opportunity to do cross-curricular learning, combining science, technology, engineering, math, finance, marketing, communication, writing, leadership skills, and much more.

With all due respect to other school activities, how many other activities at school provides that type of cross-curricular activity ? Basketball, football, soccer, chess club, literary, drama, or art club, anime, etc.

There is a three part lecture here on the subject of creating public value. Even though much of the talk is financially oriented, creating the same public value in the minds of the community and school system is just as important.

If you can get them to value the team and what it is doing then you will have no problem. Ditto for fundraising, recruitment, etc.

One more thing, your team is doing a co-curricular (not extra-curricular) activity that is complementing the classroom experience by creating challenging cross-curricular enterprise style learning experiences.

Good Luck.

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Wasn't Rhode Island one of the states with a governor gung-ho behind FIRST? Or maybe it was another high-ranking official, a senator or representative. I recall Dean giving him one of the Segway-based wheelchairs that could raise up so the user was on eye level with other people.

You might seek help from higher sources to convince your school administration of the value of the program.

Yes, this would be Rhode Island Rep. Langevin.