What Is Your Favorite Part Of FRC?

[Tommy F.]

I felt that the "Other" option was worthy of being a replacement "All of the Above" option.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

If I had to and I mean HAD TO, choose between a second regional or designing and prototyping before build season, I would choose prototyping. It would cost less to prototype systems you want to learn about than it would to attend a second regional, and the return on investment is potentially greater.

I have to respectfully disagree. The second event is more or less essential to our program. You really need that quick turnaround iteration cycle to inspire kids with hard work.

[davidthefat]

Keep in mind, I do not have any real "power" bestowed upon me, but I do have a great deal of influence. I have watched ebarker's video, it is a great one and I think everyone should watch it. School starts in 3 days, so I better talk to my mentor. I do observe a great deal of things and I do analyze every aspect of a system. What I think the problem in our team is the lack of unity; we do not have a defined goal. Some kids are in it for the brownie points for college, some are in it for the fun, some want to just build robots, some are in it because they support FIRST's mission and others are in it for the competition. I need to unite the team under one goal.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I have to respectfully disagree. The second event is more or less essential to our program. You really need that quick turnaround iteration cycle to inspire kids with hard work.

That's assuming you have money (if needed), time, and resources to implement those design iterations

Again, it boils down to a simple fact: if you need money, make sure your team "gets it!" If they don't get what your goals are for the team, they won't be on your side. I feel like you're fighting against your team on this and trying to choose one or the other, but make them understand that if they want to do a second competition, and still be able to do things in the offseason, that they need to help you reach your goal by fundraising and seeking more sponsors. Even, scratch that, Especially small donors.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I have to respectfully disagree. The second event is more or less essential to our program. You really need that quick turnaround iteration cycle to inspire kids with hard work.

The question really comes down to: is a 3 day competition with a $9 thousand price tag really worth it more than a 4 month long $2 thousand dollar research and development period?

We save $7 thousand by just going to one regional and developing drive systems. That can be saved until needed like the year after or if we qualify for championships. Keep in mind, that is about a third of our budget.

I noticed that the majority of kids that quit happens during the first week of build. We need to show them what we do and who we are. We can do that by teaching them during the off season. The opportunity cost for developing drive systems is bigger. I really see no argument against development. It let's kids practice and pick up skills, it shows sponsors activity and a bigger incentive to sponsor, hell, it even makes a team more versatile when kick off comes along. Designing and building a drive costs less than regional and we do not have to waste time designing and CADing a drive during build, we just design around the drive. We debug during off season to save time to debug the actual robot instead of the drive, we get to build a practice bot on top of the drive we made during off season. That means more practice. Which means a higher chance at winning. Then the CADs and Code can be transferred over to the next year. I see no downside except for some money being spent.

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

What I think the problem in our team is the lack of unity; we do not have a defined goal. Some kids are in it for the brownie points for college, some are in it for the fun, some want to just build robots, some are in it because they support FIRST's mission and others are in it for the competition. I need to unite the team under one goal.

While a general common purpose is good, remember that diversity is a virtue. As long as you can get them all to work hard, people with diverse reasons for doing FIRST will do diverse things within the team, leading to a stronger team overall. There's a fine line between working towards the same goal, and forcing conformity. Remember that you're in a program with a lot of turnover, which people enter for extremely diverse reasons.


As far as "what to focus on," the bottom line is that there's no substitute for hard work. Want more funding and flexibility? Send more letters, work more fundraisers, and sell more lightbulbs. Choose to do a second event? Endlessly iterate your robot to get the most out of it. Focusing on offseason prototypes? Get the most out of limited resources by using them creatively, and putting in the hours on inventor to try to get it right the first time. No matter what you work on, working on it intensely will lead to success.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

The question really comes down to: is a 3 day competition with a $9 thousand price tag really worth it more than a 4 month long $2 thousand dollar research and development period?

In a word, yes. I know my opinion is not commonly held and it is only that, an opinion, but a second event has amazing return on investment relative to a one event season.

Shaker Robotics has made this decision every year. Second event on a $15,000 budget. Or less.

Money, to at least some extent, won't buy you a better robot, and it's more inspirational for a team to have more chances to prove themselves. I have never seen my team more dedicated and inspired than between events. Everything gets real then.

[Hawiian Cadder]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

In a word, yes. I know my opinion is not commonly held and it is only that, an opinion, but a second event has amazing return on investment relative to a one event season.

Shaker Robotics has made this decision every year. Second event on a $15,000 budget. Or less.

Money, to at least some extent, won't buy you a better robot, and it's more inspirational for a team to have more chances to prove themselves. I have never seen my team more dedicated and inspired than between events. Everything gets real then.

I agree, but i think that you should attend one event every year that your team has absolutely no chance of wining. While many of my fellow students and I learned a few things from a few robots at our regional, we learned a hundred thing from every robot at CMP, so i would suggest making the second event something where the field of play is incredibly high.

[davidthefat]

I really do not know about you, but knowing that there is only one chance of proving yourself really puts a fire under your butt. Also, having that extra budget to just mess around and be creative is better on a team's morale than having a mediocre performance at a regional. I mean it lets everyone participate since the product you make really is not going to be pit against other robots, so there is a room for error that can be spared and learned from. A lot of people on the team did not get to participate as fully as they could because more competent people just had to do their jobs since the competition rode on their shoulders. Just letting the rookies build something on their own puts a smile on their face. I remember the first time I made a robot move, I was pretty darn happy and was hooked right there. While having fun at competition might be important, but having a bad performing robot can really rain on your parade. While that failure may motivate some to do better the next competition, there really is nothing much you can do to make your robot better between competitions. I see between seasons the best opportunity to make your robot better.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

What I think the problem in our team is the lack of unity; we do not have a defined goal. Some kids are in it for the brownie points for college, some are in it for the fun, some want to just build robots, some are in it because they support FIRST's mission and others are in it for the competition. I need to unite the team under one goal.

Respectfully, why?

You have listed a number of motivations; don't confuse them with goals. Are any of those motivations invalid reasons for kids to get involved and hopefully get inspired? I don't think so.

Goals would be something like

• building a robot that will lead to us being ...
• getting involved in our community by ...
• showing students career pathways in ...
• ensuring team sustainability by ...
• encouraging personal growth by ...

All noble goals - but they must be agreed upon by the team, not imposed. People will only work toward common goals when they are part of the goal-setting process.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

All noble goals - but they must be agreed upon by the team, not imposed. People will only work toward common goals when they are part of the goal-setting process.

Wisdom.

Too much I, I, I and me, me, me does not a team make.

Too much time spent on CD immersed in the I, I, I and me, me, me focus does not a team member make.

--
My favorite part of FRC is the opportunity to brainstorm and problem-solve with different groups of people in all the aspects of FRC.

Jane

[Ankit S.]

I also agree with going to two regionals.

With that second regional, you have a chance to see more robots, different robots, and different designs. Those different designs might be what fuel you to make a different drivetrain. If one team has an innovative drivetrain, but goes to a regional thats far from your home, than you may lose the chance of seeing that drivetrain.

Also, many teams do better in their second regional than their first. Going to a second regional may keep the motivation higher if you do very well in your second regional.

One thing you could do is have the students pay for travel expenses and food; that is what our team does for our "away" regional.

This way you wont need to spend 7000 on that second regional, only ~4000. Thats an extra 3000 dollars in the bag.

If you do manage to get at least 12-15k as your budget this year, you should be going to that second regional.

As for leaving behind a legacy of CAD and design and prototyping, start teaching the team how to CAD, and start fully designing before fabrication.

Good luck.

[thefro526]

My favorite part of FRC?

The people.

Those people make robots seem uninteresting.

[XaulZan11]

One issue that I don't believe has been brought up in the 2nd regional or offseason prototyping discussion is that it can be very hard to get students excited and involved in working on stuff during the summer that they may never use again. While nearly all students are excited and involved in a second regional, you may be lucky to get 1/3 of the students involved in offseason testing. I agree that on paper, offseason prototyping probably provides the return on investment in terms of learning and increasing the chance of future success, but it may be hard to get potentially short sighted students on board.

My suggestion would be to combine both of these and attend a couple of offseasons. You can still do the prototyping, but this time it has a more practical application--the actual competition. You can do anything from tweaking existing systems, completing re-doing subsystems, using a completely new drivetrain, to building a brand new robot (check out 1625 from this year and I believe 2949 from 2010). Plus, you can train new drivers, pit crew and scouts at these events.

[Luckryan]

Originally Posted by thefro526

My favorite part of FRC?

The people.

Those people make robots seem uninteresting.

Originally Posted by 7h0m54

I felt that the "Other" option was worthy of being a replacement "All of the Above" option.

Both these things are true.. Getting teams members and really, new team members, to do things off season and during the summer are as people are saying really hard to do. I would say that if you do get money to do the 'off season' prototyping and stuff like that to do it not during the summer and wait to start till after school has started a little.