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[gblake]

Originally Posted by Taylor

...
His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?

This is not a black and white subject.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by gblake

This is not a black and white subject.

No, but it sure is a good one.

Jane

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?

As Blake said, it's not black and white.

If a child is showing early signs of great athletic prowess this decision could be a life changer.

Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers is a fascinating read, and may cast some light on this subject.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Taylor

In several instances I know of my friends and family, there was a young boy who was enrolling in grade school. His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?

My parents heard the same thing. I'm glad they didn't listen.

There are many factors that go into such a decision. This is probably the single least important.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Taylor

In several instances I know of my friends and family, there was a young boy who was enrolling in grade school. His birthday was close to the cut-line for acceptance; administrators say, "If you hold him back a year, he'll be better at sports." What kind of reflection on our society is? Early elementary educators are more concerned about athletic prowess than a child's eagerness to learn?

Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.

That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.

I wouldn't trade it for the world.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Taylor

That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.

I wouldn't trade it for the world.

Then consider yourself blessed.

But what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone else.

It's a tough decision for parents. It's not black and white.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Taylor

That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.

I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I absolutely would. I guess we had different experiences.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Taylor

That is me. When I graduated high school, I had just turned 16.

I wouldn't trade it for the world.

What he said exactly.

I don't mean to say the decision is easy, I just mean to say that sports is probably the reason that will contribute least to their happiness and well being.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Try being the kid in gym class that's a year or two younger than his classmates. I assure you it can be a big problem.

A year or two might make a difference, but I thought we were talking about someone being "close to the cutoff" and thus less than a year younger than the typical classmate.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

What he said exactly.

I don't mean to say the decision is easy, I just mean to say that sports is probably the reason that will contribute least to their happiness and well being.

I don't mean to bring up a dead thread, but I did go and pick up a copy of Outliers. Even outside of sports, there were clear indications in the studies used by the author that being the eldest among your classmates gives one an initial small advantage that compounds into a much larger one.

For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year. If that prevents the student from being placed in an honors/advanced track, that small initial difference is compounded, and can be further compounded in years to come.

We all like to think we (and I assume our kids) are really intelligent/hardworking and are capable of bucking a trend like this. But why have them start with a disadvantage when we could be giving them/ourselves an advantage?

[Taylor]

Disclaimer: I have not read the book.

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year.

I would certainly hope so; that child has had 11 more months of existence and brain development; cognitively (s)he is much older than classmates. In the fourth grade, that is a big big deal.

Empirical evidence is good, and certainly has its place. Especially when related to things such as robot design and construction. However, if my parents had waited the extra year to place me into school, I may have lost the drive, the motivation, the challenge in that year of academic inactivity.

As has been said before, this is not a black-and-white issue; statistics derive from people but people are not statistics. Your individual mileage may vary.

I wasn't too pretty do to homework, and I don't believe I've ever met anybody who is.

[Molten]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

I don't mean to bring up a dead thread, but I did go and pick up a copy of Outliers. Even outside of sports, there were clear indications in the studies used by the author that being the eldest among your classmates gives one an initial small advantage that compounds into a much larger one.

For example, on 4th grade aptitude tests a student born immediately following the grade cutoff on average scored 14% higher than students born closer to the cutoff for the following year. If that prevents the student from being placed in an honors/advanced track, that small initial difference is compounded, and can be further compounded in years to come.

We all like to think we (and I assume our kids) are really intelligent/hardworking and are capable of bucking a trend like this. But why have them start with a disadvantage when we could be giving them/ourselves an advantage?

Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed? Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year? I completely agree it isn't a simple choice, but why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent?

Jason

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Molten

Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed?

That path is fraught with peril methinks.

Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year?

Stayed home and waited? Life is school. The child matures and learns during that year. Hits the ground running next year.

why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent

I'd say no.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Taylor

However, if my parents had waited the extra year to place me into school, I may have lost the drive, the motivation, the challenge in that year of academic inactivity.

You were one motivated 5 year old!

Originally Posted by Taylor

As has been said before, this is not a black-and-white issue; statistics derive from people but people are not statistics. Your individual mileage may vary.

I wasn't too pretty do to homework, and I don't believe I've ever met anybody who is.

No argument here with the caveat that people are statistics, but nothing ever says you the individual has to be close to the mean. Though statistically, most people will be.

Originally Posted by Molten

Interesting data, but what is the harm in starting them early and holding them back a grade later on if needed? Wouldn't that give them an advantage over the student that stayed home and waited for a year? I completely agree it isn't a simple choice, but why do you have to pick? Can't you have both to some extent?

I would imagine some of the social stigma that goes along with being held back a year would be quite harmful.

Back on the subject of T-shirts, I think they could send an equally inappropriate message if they sold t-shirts for engineers that said, "I'm too good at math for normal social interaction." They would get a lot of laughs at tech schools, which is really not a good thing.