FTC 2011-2012 Kickoff "Bowled Over!"

[Duke461]

The FTC kickoff was today, and presented the new game, "Bowled Over!".

Personally, this looks like a fantastic game with many diverse ways to score.
Here's the youtube of the kickoff and game animation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmfobxGy4gk
And here is the USFIRST page with the game manual and everything:
http://www.usfirst.org/2011-2012-ftc-game-preview
For anyone too lazy to navigate through all the links or sit through a video, a one-page game summary and field layout PDF is attached.


Good Luck to all the FTC teams out there competing this year!
-Duke

[lemiant]

I think this game is ok. It sure as heck isn't simple. I like the multitude of scoring opportunities, but some of them are just silly:

I'll go on record predicting that no one will ever create a valid stack taller than 2 crates.

[Tetraman]

FRC games always contains discussions about how easy the game needs to be for onlookers and casual fans to understand, but FTC can get away with a massive list of scoring opportunities with a huge variance of points available based on simply the location of objects within field elements.

I love FTC game design. It's in some ways allowed to be more wild and out there because a smaller scale allows for more innovation to the design of the game all together. But it seems to get a little more crazy each year. Can there be one year where it's easy to see and understand what is truly going on during a match?

Originally Posted by lemiant

I'll go on record predicting that no one will ever create a valid stack taller than 2 crates.

I will say no higher than 3. However I expect teams won't need to stack more than two anyway:

1. Put a crate with one ball on a robot's lift mechanism.
2. Put a create with one ball on that crate.
3. Activate the lift mechanism and raise those crates a two or three feet in the air in the last 10 seconds of play.
4. Score height bonuses out to wazoo.

[Chris is me]

Can't you just put a crate on a scissor lift and lift it high in the air at the end of the match?

Too bad FTC doesn't have linear slides so you could build a massive forklift.

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

I will say no higher than 3. However I expect teams won't need to stack more than two anyway:

Wanna bet?

But I actually really like this game...

[R.C.]

This is actually pretty cool, I'd love to play this!

-RC

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Tim Delles

Wanna bet?

But I actually really like this game...

I'll take that bet. haha.

I point out my scenario and also what Chris is me said, the ability to stack on a robot and have a robot lift a stack of crates will be easier to pull off, and smarter.

4 crates, each with 1 ball on the floor: 0+10+20+30+6 = 66 points
2 crates, each with 1 ball on a robot and lifted high: 30+40+4 = 74 points

The fact that it took only 2 crates and 2 balls to pull off allows your alliance to do more with the other crates you are given. Also note that 1st crate on the floor gives you 0 points ball scored in it or not. That's a waste of a crate, and possibly makes the stack one more chance to be unsteady and to topple on its own. And hold on if you can lift those crates one more level - 40+50+2= 92. 50+60+2=112. It just gets easier to score those massive point bonuses at heights that simple stacking on the floor can not reach.

All my thoughts on the overall design of the game said, I do like this game. But the bowling ball's only use seems to be to give the challenge its name, and I don't like how useless those ball holders are after the game begins.

[Greg Marra]

It seems to me like scoring balls in the off-field goal is a good way to rack up hundreds of points. Is this harder than it sounds?

[Andrew Schuetze]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

I'll take that bet. haha.

snip
I don't like how useless those ball holders are after the game begins.

It can be used in a stack so the bottom crate is not wasted but the stack gets a bit more precarious with the ball tube as it's base...

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schuetze

It can be used in a stack so the bottom crate is not wasted but the stack gets a bit more precarious with the ball tube as it's base...

True. Yet like you said, I wouldn't want to use it as a base. Maybe its best use would be to push them on your opponent's ramp/platform and force them to waste a few seconds to clean off the platform before they can jump on it.

I'm also surprised there are no Megabots in this game. Seeing as FRC had FTC components last year, it would stand to reason an FTC game would incorporate an FRC robot segment to the challenge. haha.

That sounds like a good idea, I'll design one up for a goof.

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

It seems to me like scoring balls in the off-field goal is a good way to rack up hundreds of points. Is this harder than it sounds?

While it isn't hard to score in the off-field goals, it could be difficult to locate the magnets in the balls. I say this based on my experience with the "magnet batons" last year in Get Over It!. They were worth 25 points last year as well, in a much lower scoring game, but I only saw a few teams even attempting to locate one. And those that did attempt to find them were rarely successful.

[Duke461]

Great feedback guys. This years looks like it will turn out very well.
Does anybody else feel like the Bowling Ball and Off-field goals are just distractions? I'd love to hear feedback on that.

Originally Posted by Kpchem

While it isn't hard to score in the off-field goals, it could be difficult to locate the magnets in the balls. I say this based on my experience with the "magnet batons" last year in Get Over It!. They were worth 25 points last year as well, in a much lower scoring game, but I only saw a few teams even attempting to locate one. And those that did attempt to find them were rarely successful.

While i agree it will still be a pain, the scenario is a bit different this year. Last year, there was 4 magnet batons and 96 normal batons (4%). This year, there are 12 magnet balls and 88 normal balls (12%). In no way is this a preponderance of magnet balls, but it can make a strong magnet strategy a bit more logical. Overall, i think teams should setup a magnet sensor and LED lights just for the heck of it, but not really ever worry about it. At the very least you could keep the other alliance from scoring the magnetic balls.

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Can't you just put a crate on a scissor lift and lift it high in the air at the end of the match?

Too bad FTC doesn't have linear slides so you could build a massive forklift.

For once, a scissor lift may actually seem like a reasonable facet of a robot

Originally Posted by Tetraman

FRC games always contains discussions about how easy the game needs to be for onlookers and casual fans to understand, but FTC can get away with a massive list of scoring opportunities with a huge variance of points available based on simply the location of objects within field elements.

I love FTC game design. It's in some ways allowed to be more wild and out there because a smaller scale allows for more innovation to the design of the game all together. But it seems to get a little more crazy each year. Can there be one year where it's easy to see and understand what is truly going on during a match?



I will say no higher than 3. However I expect teams won't need to stack more than two anyway:

1. Put a crate with one ball on a robot's lift mechanism.
2. Put a create with one ball on that crate.
3. Activate the lift mechanism and raise those crates a two or three feet in the air in the last 10 seconds of play.
4. Score height bonuses out to wazoo.

I agree 100%. Fantastic job of making the game this year, and the game rules are fantastic this year. Not many gaping holes in the rules, and the whole rule book was put together excellently. I love the table-of-contents-like page of penalties, points deducted, and location of the rule. Extremely convenient.
As for the stacking debate, i also agree with you 100%. Smarter in every way to posses the stacked crates, and then potentially lift.

-duke

[Tim Delles]

Originally Posted by Greg Marra

It seems to me like scoring balls in the off-field goal is a good way to rack up hundreds of points. Is this harder than it sounds?

Greg, you can only fit 6 balls (if they are perfectly stacked) in your magnetic goal (off-field goal). Realistically 4 should be the cap.

[NHB836]

who say's you can't lift the four crates high off the ground?

[Tetraman]

It appears that while your robot is not allowed to topple any of the crates in a protected zone, there doesn't seem to be a rule against rolling a bowling ball into those crates with the hope of knocking the stack down.

I'm not sure if that is part of the game the GDC wants to allow or an oversight.