Ye old IFI

[Mike AA]

Originally Posted by math311

I have at my disposal 4 interfaces, 4 radios. I have electrical parts for all of them to.
Some random parts i have.
An old gold circut board.
lots of 20 and 30 breakers.
a mile of cables.
I have some victors and spike relays
A robot that needs controls.
I actually have a controller set up with 2 joys and a Op interface and radio. I need to find the corresponding Robot interface and radio.
I have the little board that the 12 V connects to. I hope this works

Still searching for:
The backup battery
The little red black and gray blocks that could fit together that wires go into
The pwms we have that the programmers wont throttle me for taking(our team is low on the things)
Other random electrical junk

You could use any 7.2 volt rechargeable battery as the backup battery, you would just need to have a charger for it and an end you can put 2 female tab connectors to attach to the RC. Don't bother using the red,black and gray blocks. Instead just use the black breaker (fuse) panels and the gold fuse block.

[Mark McLeod]

The backup battery isn't actually needed to operate normally, especially for demonstrations. It's effect is only noticeable if you have a low battery or a very draining pushing contest, then the robot just stops for about 5 seconds before continuing on.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

The backup battery isn't actually needed to operate normally, especially for demonstrations. It's effect is only noticeable if you have a low battery or a very draining pushing contest, then the robot just stops for about 5 seconds before continuing on.

Maybe, maybe not... If the main battery gets too low, the IFI controllers didn't have the capability that the cRIO does to cut power to the motors before the controller. So, you could get the case where the motors take all the power and the RC gets none, AKA an uncontrolled robot that the E-stop can't stop. It's happened (IRI 2002 for one instance).

If you operate without the backup, set the OI LED screen to show the battery voltage; if you start getting down in voltage, change batteries.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by EricH

So, you could get the case where the motors take all the power and the RC gets none, AKA an uncontrolled robot that the E-stop can't stop. It's happened (IRI 2002 for one instance).

That's not true for the 2004-2008 controllers and I don't see how it could be true for the 2002 controller (it isn't true for mine but the Master Code might have changed since 2002).

When the RC loses power, the speed controllers and spikes stop receiving a PWM signal that allows them to move. They immediately go to the no signal state and stop until the RC finishes rebooting and reevaluates the joystick inputs when it comes back up (~ 5-10 seconds).

What is your speculation on the technical reasons why you had that problem in 2002?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

That's not true for the 2004-2008 controllers and I don't see how it could be true for the 2002 controller (it isn't true for mine but the Master Code might have changed since 2002).

When the RC loses power, the speed controllers and spikes stop receiving a PWM signal that allows them to move. They immediately go to the no signal state and stop until the RC finishes rebooting and reevaluates the joystick inputs when it comes back up (~ 5-10 seconds).

What is your speculation on the technical reasons why you had that problem in 2002?

Surface-charged battery is what we think the problem was (they may have also had heat damage); the motors would start running when told to at the start of the match, but the controller would cut out. The motors would keep running, and yes, that's keep running, at a slow speed, and the E-stop could NOT stop the robot. So there would be someone pushing the E-stop, and the robot would keep driving without anybody at the controls.

You might not see how it could be true, but that's what happened. That's one of the reasons the backup battery was put in place; that came in in 2004. The purpose of the backup battery was to maintain power to the controller so that you could stop the robot remotely--it's not intended to provide enough power to drive around, just to maintain communication. So after 2004, it was a non-issue due to the backup battery.

[Mark McLeod]

I certainly disagree about the purpose of the backup battery.
It only saves the robot from rebooting in the middle of a match when the robot main battery voltage dips. Something that doesn't matter in demo presentations. We use the old controllers constantly and have never included the backup batteries.

That would have been a really bad band-aid if it was to solve a runaway robot problem (from a different generation of control system). It would be a very high risk solution to depend on teams running with a charged backup battery if they couldn't be depended on to run with a charged main battery either.
Estop plays no part. That only works in any case if the robot controller from any generation is listening and responsive.
I do know ways to accidentally power the speed controllers while the Basic Stamp RC from that generation is disabled, but I'd lean towards a corrupted Master controller program allowing that to happen. Which could have been caused by low voltage, but the solution is a circuit/master code redesign.

[docdavies]

Folks,

Like others in this thread, we've been asked to get our students to resurrect an old IFI controlled robot and get it in shape for demos and fundraising events....
The robot we have, has code on it, and runs, but only had limited functions. The marketing folks came to me and said, "Make it So"...or, get it to work and do what we want. I was not mentoring the team during those days and am once again looking at a "black box" I've got to figure out.
The posts here have been very useful, but I am having a very hard time finding the MPLAB V ~7..C 18.....2.4 software. Which if I understand it, has the bulk of the basic code required in files.

Would someone be kind enough to find me a link to that, and apparently the correct or corresponding IFI loader software. There are a considerable number of links out there to MPLAB software, but it's hard to sort through the stuff.

Thanks in advance,
Doc

[smcmahon]

Not sure if this would help any Doc, but we used RobotC to program our 2008 robot, which was the last one to use the IFI system.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by docdavies

The posts here have been very useful, but I am having a very hard time finding the MPLAB V ~7..C 18.....2.4 software. Which if I understand it, has the bulk of the basic code required in files.

Would someone be kind enough to find me a link to that, and apparently the correct or corresponding IFI loader software. There are a considerable number of links out there to MPLAB software, but it's hard to sort through the stuff.

Old Versions of MPLAB can be found here (Version 7.2).
Here is the page for the C18 Compiler (you should be able to get a free academic version or a light version (or something, at least)). I don't remember exactly what version number is required, but I think it's 2.4. EDIT: It looks like you do need MPLAB 7.2 and C18 2.4 to compile 2004-2006 code, but I couldn't find anything about 2007/8. I would suppose the same versions would work, but that's a question best answered by someone actually programming FRC robots then (i.e. not me)
IFI loader and some other resources from IFI can be found here.

I also have some other resources somewhere, because I got the old development environment set up on my laptop this time last year. I'll see what I can dig up again for you.

Best of luck!

[docdavies]

Thanks Phil....got'em

Been spending the evening looking at the Processing language and it's interaction with the Arduino. Found a great library that allow me to read joysticks and game controllers.

Who knows, maybe I'll just drop the IFI controller and go back to Arduinos.

[docdavies]

Folks,

Nothing is ever easy.....

I got the links mentioned by Phil. Problem is, for the MPLAB C compiler the 2.40 version is just an upgrade and requires that you have a previous version installed...which I don't. If you try to use the upgrade with the current version 3.4....things get very unpleasant....

Is there a work around, or a link to the installation directions for 2.40, or a copy of the stand alone 2.40?

This is beginning to become more of a problem than it's worth...and we still have 6 projects to go BEFORE next build season.

Doc

[plnyyanks]

Well, I found the old resources on my computer. I did find a ZIP with an installer for the student version of the compiler (which I'm mostly sure works - I've compiled stuff with it). I'll PM you with it.

[daniel_dsouza]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

Old Versions of MPLAB can be found here (Version 7.2).
Here is the page for the C18 Compiler (you should be able to get a free academic version or a light version (or something, at least)). I don't remember exactly what version number is required, but I think it's 2.4. EDIT: It looks like you do need MPLAB 7.2 and C18 2.4 to compile 2004-2006 code, but I couldn't find anything about 2007/8. I would suppose the same versions would work, but that's a question best answered by someone actually programming FRC robots then (i.e. not me)
IFI loader and some other resources from IFI can be found here.

The school computer (w. a serial port) that we received for programming will take a few days to get running. I have (thankfully) found our teams 2007 and 2008 discs, and in the meantime I am wondering if we can use more recent versions of the software vs. the versions listed above...

Could we use a newer version of the MPLAB IDE, or are we stuck using the version given to us in 2008?

What about the compiler, should I use the one given to us in 2008, or should I use the student version?

Thanks,
Daniel

[Mark McLeod]

The MPLAB IDE version doesn't matter. You can use a modern version.

The latest compiler will work, but only if you use matching FRC libraries (in other words you must use the same compiler that the libraries were compiled with).
The original code libraries available from the IFI archive page will only work with the old 2.4 version compiler.

The newer compiler will work with newer libraries that Kevin Watson compiled.

[plnyyanks]

Originally Posted by daniel_dsouza

Could we use a newer version of the MPLAB IDE, or are we stuck using the version given to us in 2008?

What about the compiler, should I use the one given to us in 2008, or should I use the student version?

I'll say that everything given to you on the disc is guaranteed to work, and that's your best bet.

Other than that, everything else is at your own risk. Kevin has links to libraries for both the 2.4 and 3.0 C18 compiler. My guess about the IDE is that it shouldn't make too much of a difference. If you can get the configuration to work, go for it.
Disclaimer: the above paragraph is my best guess, which is untested and I was not on a FRC team during the IFI days. I can't guarantee that anything other than the disc which was given in the KOP will work as you want it to.

EDIT: Yeah, what Mark said