Ye old IFI

[math311]

Hi.
Im a marketing newb, I build, but Im still a marketing newb. And i have an idea, an idea to build a robot for the marketing team to take to events, that is run off of the IFI controllers. I built one my first year of FIRST, and want to again. Problem is, I cant remember how. Who can help me with the layout of the breakers, victors, spikes and pwms?

[plnyyanks]

When I get a little more time on my end, I can elaborate on this a little more thoroughly, and there's surly someone who can answer better than me (not having actually competed in the IFI days), but I'll give it my best shot.

An overview of the control system can be found here. Basically, there are two parts, the Operator Interface (OI) and Robot Controller (RC). These are the predecessors to the cRIO and driverstation, respectively. Everything plugs into the RC (it has rows of pins for all I/O types you'd need). As for programming this, start by going here. Eventually, you'll need Microchip MPLAB 7.2 and the C18 compiler. You can find both of these online somewhere (although I think only a trial for the compiler), but things would be made much easier if you could find your install discs from a few years ago.

That's the best I can do in the short amount of time I have, but I'll get back to you later in the day with more.

[Akash Rastogi]

I would kill to be able to build an IFI based robot right now.

So jelly.

[JamesCH95]

It's nearly the same layout as with the cRIO. Signal (PWM and relay) and sensor cables just connect to the IFI RC instead of the cRIO. There is no wireless bridge, just the IFI radio that plugs into the IFI RC.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by plnyyanks

An overview of the control system can be found here. Basically, there are two parts, the Operator Interface (OI) and Robot Controller (RC). These are the predecessors to the cRIO and driverstation, respectively.

Uh, not respectively. The OI will not work to control the robot if it is used on the robot. They will be labeled as Operator Interface (which has a small display and a selector button) and Robot Controller (which does not have that display).

[Mark McLeod]

Here's the FRC wiring diagram: http://www.team358.org/files/program...on_Diagram.pdf
We have some other IFI era info documented here

An alternative to learning to program it yourself is to experiment with the Robot Controller you have and discover what the program already on it will do for you. Since it ran a robot at one time it'll probably still be setup with that original program.

If you find you need to write your own program:

• If you have the original MPLAB installation for FRC (compiler version 2.4) then the default code and FRC libraries linked to in earlier posts will work (the FRC libraries were compiled under version 2.4).
• If however you get the later version of the C compiler (version 3.4) now available online then you will need to start with the code from Kevin Watson's site and use the matching pre-compiled FRC libraries (version 3.x or 2.4 are available).

[math311]

I have at my disposal 4 interfaces, 4 radios. I have electrical parts for all of them to.
Some random parts i have.
An old gold circut board.
lots of 20 and 30 breakers.
a mile of cables.
I have some victors and spike relays
A robot that needs controls.
I actually have a controller set up with 2 joys and a Op interface and radio. I need to find the corresponding Robot interface and radio.
I have the little board that the 12 V connects to. I hope this works

Still searching for:
The backup battery
The little red black and gray blocks that could fit together that wires go into
The pwms we have that the programmers wont throttle me for taking(our team is low on the things)
Other random electrical junk

[KHall]

Quick question while we have the experts looking -- does anybody know what that 'dongle' between the USB and the 9-pin (serial?) port is?

We've got a couple of those old dongles, and I've often wondered if you can use the USB side of the orange VEX cable with a passthru or cossover 9-pin serial? If you've tried that out and know what actually works, please let us know. We've had some weird issues with our old (orginal) USB-to-9-pin dongle and the newer Easy-C code when programming our old IFI controllers.

(Specially: the on-line window doesn't work, and it appears to download but the program never gets to the IFI controller.)

Thanks,
Keith Hall

[Mark McLeod]

If this is what you're talking about, then its a USB to Serial DB-9 (RS232) adapter. Necessary since the vast majority of laptops don't come with serial ports any longer.
For the IFI controller it'd work with a regular serial cable, but not with a null modem cable.

Can't help you with EasyC operability on the IFI controller. I didn't know EasyC was capable of that.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Can't help you with EasyC operability on the IFI controller. I didn't know EasyC was capable of that.

You've forgotten the later years of the IFI system, Mark. It was compatible, all right, and I'm pretty certain multiple teams used it.

I think Jess is going to find a new victim for the clipboard on Long Island for forgetting about that...

[Mark McLeod]

...and I've got five or six licenses for EasyC too
It's been awhile though since I've used it.

If help with EasyC is needed then you can email support@intelitek.com for assistance.

[Mike AA]

Originally Posted by math311

I have at my disposal 4 interfaces, 4 radios. I have electrical parts for all of them to.
Some random parts i have.
An old gold circut board.
lots of 20 and 30 breakers.
a mile of cables.
I have some victors and spike relays
A robot that needs controls.
I actually have a controller set up with 2 joys and a Op interface and radio. I need to find the corresponding Robot interface and radio.
I have the little board that the 12 V connects to. I hope this works

Still searching for:
The backup battery
The little red black and gray blocks that could fit together that wires go into
The pwms we have that the programmers wont throttle me for taking(our team is low on the things)
Other random electrical junk

You could use any 7.2 volt rechargeable battery as the backup battery, you would just need to have a charger for it and an end you can put 2 female tab connectors to attach to the RC. Don't bother using the red,black and gray blocks. Instead just use the black breaker (fuse) panels and the gold fuse block.

[Mark McLeod]

The backup battery isn't actually needed to operate normally, especially for demonstrations. It's effect is only noticeable if you have a low battery or a very draining pushing contest, then the robot just stops for about 5 seconds before continuing on.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

The backup battery isn't actually needed to operate normally, especially for demonstrations. It's effect is only noticeable if you have a low battery or a very draining pushing contest, then the robot just stops for about 5 seconds before continuing on.

Maybe, maybe not... If the main battery gets too low, the IFI controllers didn't have the capability that the cRIO does to cut power to the motors before the controller. So, you could get the case where the motors take all the power and the RC gets none, AKA an uncontrolled robot that the E-stop can't stop. It's happened (IRI 2002 for one instance).

If you operate without the backup, set the OI LED screen to show the battery voltage; if you start getting down in voltage, change batteries.

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by EricH

So, you could get the case where the motors take all the power and the RC gets none, AKA an uncontrolled robot that the E-stop can't stop. It's happened (IRI 2002 for one instance).

That's not true for the 2004-2008 controllers and I don't see how it could be true for the 2002 controller (it isn't true for mine but the Master Code might have changed since 2002).

When the RC loses power, the speed controllers and spikes stop receiving a PWM signal that allows them to move. They immediately go to the no signal state and stop until the RC finishes rebooting and reevaluates the joystick inputs when it comes back up (~ 5-10 seconds).

What is your speculation on the technical reasons why you had that problem in 2002?