MAR

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

Eric, since you are not even close to the target group, does it make much sense that you would have been hit with MAR informational minutes or information? Perhaps another rookie team could comment on how that has actually happened, and it would be much more useful to the MAR planning committee. Finally starting with "X, just a little hint." sounds pretty condescending to me. Even if someone was giving me the best advice in the world, if it was delivered like that I'm not sure I would listen.

Ian, I gave an example. No, I'm not in the area. I never asked to be involved; if I had wanted to be, I wouldn't have had much of an idea how to get involved. But let's say that CA (or some other area I'm in) starts a district system up. Let's say that I'm in the target area, with a team (a bit of a stretch). Now, if it's something I need/want to know about, like planning meetings, and I don't know about it for whatever reason, I'm not going to be too thrilled months later when I look and all I know about is one meeting--and I find out that there were a bunch of others, and didn't know the contact info or anything for involvement. That not-thrilled-ness is going to be directed towards wherever the communication break happened--or where I see the break happening, which may not be the same place.

That was my point. I've been following this thread today, and it just seems like the folks that are active in MAR are assuming that their information on how to be involved with planning and meetings and all that made it to everybody. This information is incorrect, or was...but operating under the assumption that everyone who wants to be involved has information on how to get involved is not ideal.

Flyers at events, assuming both that they have the information needed to get involved and that they are distributed appropriately, do have a tendency to end up in piles of paperwork or in the trash or buried in someone's bag. Email, though better, can still break down, as shown here. Hey, maybe a post on CD about "Hey, we're forming X group, here's how to get involved" would work--but I didn't exactly see that info in a post. Definitely a good effort, now that I hear what they did. Team communication breakdowns are not the fault of the organization. Just maybe a general announcement via some non-email communication might have been a really good idea.

Ian, I'll be editing that part about "hint" out of my original post. I apologize if anyone took that the wrong way. I just tend to get rather irritated about communication breakdowns--the more critical the communicated information, the more irritated I get.

[KathieK]

Since I anticipate the Connecticut teams asking me, can someone please clarify which teams can attend MAR events? Some of my teams have been going to NJ and PA Regionals for a long time... And no, I haven't been in the communications loop for this.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by EricH

Flyers at events, assuming both that they have the information needed to get involved and that they are distributed appropriately, do have a tendency to end up in piles of paperwork or in the trash or buried in someone's bag. Email, though better, can still break down, as shown here. Hey, maybe a post on CD about "Hey, we're forming X group, here's how to get involved" would work--but I didn't exactly see that info in a post.

No offense Eric, but emails to official team contacts and flyers passed out at events are far more likely to reach people than CD posts. There are a huge number of teams that have no presence on CD.

If lead mentors don't pass on information received, that's not the fault of the sender. I know how that works. I relied for years on people reprinting email blasts here on CD, because our mentor didn't read his emails (from anyone) on a regular basis.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

MAR has done everything in their power to try and inform everyone in the region that this is happening and how to get involved in the planning process. That is absolutely not MAR's problem. They were even handing out flyers at regionals last season. Honestly, any active mentor in the region pretty much had to intentionally avoid MAR not to be exposed to it at some point this summer.

Sean, I wouldn't go as far to say that 'Any Active Mentor in the region had to intentionally avoid MAR'. I consider myself, and many others that I'm in frequent contact with to be 'active' (which I guess is a relative term) mentors. Yes, I was copied on the e-mails, but there wasn't much information in any of them, or at least none that I saw. It seems like the only way to get information (Other than who was on the board of directors and an assortment of resolutions) is to actually go to one of the MAR meetings - which I did.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ian, I'll be editing that part about "hint" out of my original post. I apologize if anyone took that the wrong way. I just tend to get rather irritated about communication breakdowns--the more critical the communicated information, the more irritated I get.

Eric- I can appreciate what you are trying to accomplish. I agree communication is absolutely critical in almost every aspect of life. It too, irritates me, as it often leads to messy situations that can be avoided.

That being said, I don't have much knowledge of MAR. What I do know is from being in touch with my old teammates on MORT and seeing the few posts about it here on CD. I can understand how some people in the MAR region may be irritated if information was not communicated to them (if indeed, it was not brought to their attention). With all that said, I am not 'in the loop' so to speak. I don't know what was done by the MAR committee to reach out to teams, and I'm not going to speculate as to what did, or didn't occur. To me, just as bad as non-communication is over-communication. I personally don't see much constructive discussion in offering somewhat arbitrary examples of miscommunication.

I think Akash did the right thing and brought up the question to a body of people that could help (albeit he may have been able to say it a littttttle bit nicer ). He got an answer from a fellow FIRSTer, and now assumingly, he will have the communication channel he desired. Let's just leave it at that, especially if we have no direct view into what is happening in MAR. Otherwise, it's just extra discussion to cloud the clear messages people are looking for.

-Brando

[JaneYoung]

Just stepping into this discussion for a minute, I promise.

Texas has had some discussions about districting and I have not been in the loop. I'm not a lead mentor on our team and I haven't requested to be a part of the decision-making process. When I've read things that I've questioned - Bill's Blog comes to mind - I contact one or two of the people involved in the decision-making process and ask them to fill me in as best they can. It isn't anyone in CD although a few of them do participate in this forum. If one wants to know what's going on in the area and who to contact, it is always good to begin with the Regional Director, Assistant Regional Director, or the FIRST Senior Mentor of that area. If multiple states are involved, I would still follow that plan. They are the people directly connected to FIRST and to their region.

I also believe that too many people involved in the planning and decision-making process, slow it down. There's an element of trust that has to be involved - trusting that the decisions are being made carefully by people invested in making the FIRST programs stronger and better for the teams and their communities.

Jane

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by KathieK

Since I anticipate the Connecticut teams asking me, can someone please clarify which teams can attend MAR events? Some of my teams have been going to NJ and PA Regionals for a long time... And no, I haven't been in the communications loop for this.

Teams ONLY in New Jersey, Eastern Pennsylvania, and Delaware may attend. Sorry.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by EricH

No, I'm not in the area. I never asked to be involved; if I had wanted to be, I wouldn't have had much of an idea how to get involved.

I'm sure you'd quickly realize that contacting the Regional Director would be a great place to start.

If you wouldn't have come up with that on your own, and if you weren't part of a team in the area, and if you didn't go to any competitions where the information was available, then I don't know what to tell you.

That was my point. I've been following this thread today, and it just seems like the folks that are active in MAR are assuming that their information on how to be involved with planning and meetings and all that made it to everybody. This information is incorrect, or was...but operating under the assumption that everyone who wants to be involved has information on how to get involved is not ideal.

The information might not have "made it to" everybody, but it was certainly "made available to" every team in the area. That some team contacts failed to pass it on to anyone is unfortunate. It is also unfortunate that the MAR board has no control over such things.

Flyers at events, assuming both that they have the information needed to get involved and that they are distributed appropriately, do have a tendency to end up in piles of paperwork or in the trash or buried in someone's bag. Email, though better, can still break down, as shown here. Hey, maybe a post on CD about "Hey, we're forming X group, here's how to get involved" would work--but I didn't exactly see that info in a post. Definitely a good effort, now that I hear what they did. Team communication breakdowns are not the fault of the organization. Just maybe a general announcement via some non-email communication might have been a really good idea.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting should have been done. Don't flyers count as "non-email communication"?


I'm also more than a little confused about Akash's position. The team went defunct? If that's the case, I don't really see how anyone could expect its former members to be specifically targeted with useful information. I'd say that disbanding a team and not going to any events fits the description of "intentionally" avoiding MAR.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I'm not sure what you're suggesting should have been done. Don't flyers count as "non-email communication"?

CD and the FIRST forums are what I was thinking of. While not as many people read those, it would not hurt to have a thread saying "Here's how to get involved" in both places. Now, I don't know if there was such a thread/post on the FIRST forums. I don't remember seeing one on CD.

There are probably a number of teams that don't have an active CD presence that have a FIRST forum presence that's a little more active.

I wouldn't call disbanding a team and not going to any events intentionally avoiding something. There are probably quite a few teams that don't do anything over the summer/early fall as a team while they take time off. Saying that teams like that, especially with active mentors, are intentionally avoiding something is probably not accurate.

[jwfoss]

EricH, based on your reading of chiefdelphi and posting, if you didn't see it, it probably wasn't a thread here.

Alan, Akash was a mentor on a team what went defunked due to reasons I do not have knowledge of but has maintained a high level of involvement in FIRST at college. As far as I know he has been working with a larger group of mentors and a different school to start a new rookie team.

I would hope that as more areas move to the district system (I expect New England to follow suit in the next few years) that they will create websites/blogs to document and update the teams involved.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I'm also more than a little confused about Akash's position. The team went defunct? If that's the case, I don't really see how anyone could expect its former members to be specifically targeted with useful information. I'd say that disbanding a team and not going to any events fits the description of "intentionally" avoiding MAR.

Alan, long story, too many issues. It would muddle up the thread more if I explained.

In any case, Eric and others, discussing the communication topic- Don already posted how to get into the communication loop. You guys really don't need to continue the conversation. Ed already emailed me about why some teams might have slid through the gaps as well.

Moving on: Here's some places where information about MAR will be published. http://mar.us.com/

http://www.midatlanticrobotics.com/downloads/

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by jwfoss

EricH, based on your reading of chiefdelphi and posting, if you didn't see it, it probably wasn't a thread here.

There wasn't a specific thread, but I recall seeing several Chief Delphi posts from Don over the summer saying that the Mid-Atlantic Robotics Region was moving to a Michigan-like system. The news in Bill's Blog certainly didn't take me by surprise.

(I would have been very surprised, stunned, and even upset to discover a similar thing happening in the Midwest, because I am tuned in to the Indiana FRC scene, and I do participate in mentor meetings, and I am aware only of preliminary musings on how it might be made to work.)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

There wasn't a specific thread, but I recall seeing several Chief Delphi posts from Don over the summer saying that the Mid-Atlantic Robotics Region was moving to a Michigan-like system.

Yep, and I saw those. What I didn't see was the "this is how to get involved if you're in the area", which has now been posted.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Thanks Don!

My pleasure Akash. No negative anything felt or imagined.

Originally Posted by EricH

Let's just say, as an example, that I were in the MAR area. (I'm not.)

Ah, but if you were, you'd have been inundated with MAR. Adding to Lil Lavery's response, the mAR folks literally attended every kickoff, regional, scrimmage, off-season, etc.. - Basically, every place where more than one FRC team might be found...and handed out cards telling folks what MAR was and how to join.

I fully agree, CD is not MAR's medium of choice. But is that really a failing? Seriously, like Lavery wrote...

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

any active mentor in the region pretty much had to intentionally avoid MAR not to be exposed to it at some point

(Since November 2010)

Originally Posted by thefro526

Yes, I was copied on the e-mails, but there wasn't much information in any of them, or at least none that I saw.

Ah, but in FRC, as in life, sometimes there is a Push system and sometimes it's a Pull system. No disrespect intended (because you've been around long enough and I do respect you), but if you had questions you should have asked.

====

All that being said: I'm pointedly asking anyone to volunteer ideas for how THEY might communicate something like MAR to their area. My intent in asking is to document some good ideas for anyone who finds themselves having to do this in the future...and we should all realize that, in high-density areas, it's destiny (sorry about the pun...)

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Ah, but in FRC, as in life, sometimes there is a Push system and sometimes it's a Pull system. No disrespect intended (because you've been around long enough and I do respect you), but if you had questions you should have asked.

No harm done, Don. Once I found out who to go to with my Questions, I got just about every one answered - which involved me going to the last MAR meeting. (An enjoyable experience, actually).