[BB] Bag & Tag in brief and MAR demystified

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Uhhhh.... to a drayage facility? If you're paying to ship it privately, why not pay for a drayage facility?

Or even to a local team's facility? I'd imagine that someone would be nice enough to take in a robot for a few days.

[ehochstein]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Or even to a local team's facility? I'd imagine that someone would be nice enough to take in a robot for a few days.

Either that or a sponsor's local facility.

Originally Posted by thefro526

Or even to a local team's facility? I'd imagine that someone would be nice enough to take in a robot for a few days.

I'm sure anyone's robot is safe in FIRSTer's hands.

[waialua359]

Great suggestions that we thought of.
However, the bigger issue is having to spend time, effort and resources to get it to event and from event to the next regional/championships......instead of the pack the robot and put signs on it, leaving it in the pit.
According to Bill, teams still ship robots to championships in a crate, right?
So what if you are going to CMP after just 1 regional?
Technically, all regionals would have to make provisions for that....I'd assume.

[kinganu123]

What???
Middlesex County isn't on there (Team 224 is in NJ), so are we not in MAR?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Uhhhh.... to a drayage facility? If you're paying to ship it privately, why not pay for a drayage facility?

Originally Posted by thefro526

Or even to a local team's facility? I'd imagine that someone would be nice enough to take in a robot for a few days.

Originally Posted by Wiifi

Either that or a sponsor's local facility.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Any one of those needs to be arranged well in advance; and then what do you do with the crate while you're at the event? (I'm not exactly certain a drayage facility would allow a few people in to open a crate, remove stuff, close the crate, return a few days later, and reverse the process, either.)

What I would suggest is that one or two teams in the area of any given event make themselves available as "ship targets"; that is, places that teams needing to ship for whatever weird reason can send their crates to. Ideally, the teams receiving the crates would also have a transport vehicle for 2-3 robots (and if it's rented, then it's only fair that the teams who ship there at least help with fuel) and take all the robots to the venue. It's probably the "least pain" method, and it increases the work for multiple teams, but it ought to work fairly well.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by kinganu123

What???
Middlesex County isn't on there (Team 224 is in NJ), so are we not in MAR?

The county listing was PA counties. NJ is a state, and is listed along with DE.

[kinganu123]

Originally Posted by EricH

The county listing was PA counties. NJ is a state, and is listed along with DE.

0, wow
Thanks!

[buildmaster5000]

Originally Posted by EricH

<snip>

What I would suggest is that one or two teams in the area of any given event make themselves available as "ship targets"; that is, places that teams needing to ship for whatever weird reason can send their crates to. Ideally, the teams receiving the crates would also have a transport vehicle for 2-3 robots (and if it's rented, then it's only fair that the teams who ship there at least help with fuel) and take all the robots to the venue. It's probably the "least pain" method, and it increases the work for multiple teams, but it ought to work fairly well.

It would be a wise idea for the "ship targets" to be
a) close to the competition venue (like 190 for the WPI Regional, or a team in downtown DC for the DC regional...)
b) well publicized by FIRST. It would make the teams in the UK, Brazil, etc very happy. And FIRST would get brownie points from all of us in the US.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I was told of a situation today that "could" happen.

Example:
Team 359 decides to sign up for Houston week 6-2012 season.
Team 359 applies for an exemption to have the robot shipped and drayage setup at regional.
Team 359 is the only team attending that needs an exemption.
FIRST denies your exemption and encourages you to attend another event that has more exempt teams pending.

Team 359 already booked airlines, hotels, etc. because its much cheaper to plan ahead.
Team 359's other regionals may be in jeopardy because of suggested change.

You've got to be kidding me.
With the window of time you are working in right now?

Goodness me.

Jane

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I was told of a situation today that "could" happen.

Example:
Team 359 decides to sign up for Houston week 6-2012 season.
Team 359 applies for an exemption to have the robot shipped and drayage setup at regional.
Team 359 is the only team attending that needs an exemption.
FIRST denies your exemption and encourages you to attend another event that has more exempt teams pending.

Team 359 already booked airlines, hotels, etc. because its much cheaper to plan ahead.
Team 359's other regionals may be in jeopardy because of suggested change.

This might be a silly way of looking at it, but if you have already signed up for the regional, and there aren't any regionals that have spots left and a shipping presence, I think they would work with you from there, wouldn't they? Also, leaving the reigning CCA out in the cold like that would cause a big stink.

In addition to that, I think you could find a way to ship the robot to a local team, and pick it up on Wednesday night.

I really hope that doesn't happen to you and everything works out.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Bill Miller

(For instance, if you have to cross an ocean or a continent to reach the nearest event.)

You may not be assured exemption from now, but I think the above is a pretty good standard to consider. For example, Team 359 will have to cross an ocean for any regionals (except Hawai'i) that they attend; therefore, they will almost certainly receive an exemption from BaT for all of those regionals, if requested.

Any team that would consider Bag-and-Tag such a hassle that they'd choose to bag, crate, ship to a trusted acceptor, arrive at the competition's location early, pick up the robot from that acceptor on Wednesday, and finally find a way to get the robot from the first place to the other, will probably be granted an exemption, because they would need an exceptional reason to choose the gruelling, described option.

[Tristan Lall]

Regarding the denial of a bag and tag exemption, provided that the decision is rendered around late December/early January, it's more of an inconvenience/expense than a crisis. I'm sure FIRST will help you get in touch with private shipping contractors and someone to hold it for you.

On another note, I wonder if FIRST has a formal plan for enforcement of the bag and tag procedures? Something like requiring submission of photographs of the robots (in the open, and then bagged and sealed) and tags on ship day, with copies to the regionals. Maybe even a procedure for appointed representatives to drop in on short notice to verify compliance. The honour system does work pretty well, but there were some reports of suspicious actions that undermine the integrity of the competition.

Originally Posted by Frenchie461

Let me get this straight, without an exception, everyone bag and tags?

You still need a crate for the Championship. Want to bet there will be a mad scramble for teams that didn't think they would qualify at their final-week regionals to put together a crate on Sunday so that they can ship to St. Louis? (Not a huge problem as long as someone, maybe the regional director, has put some advance planning into it.)

[Pjohn1959]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I was told of a situation today that "could" happen.

Example:
Team 359 decides to sign up for Houston week 6-2012 season.
Team 359 applies for an exemption to have the robot shipped and drayage setup at regional.
Team 359 is the only team attending that needs an exemption.
FIRST denies your exemption and encourages you to attend another event that has more exempt teams pending.

Team 359 already booked airlines, hotels, etc. because its much cheaper to plan ahead.
Team 359's other regionals may be in jeopardy because of suggested change.

I don't care what you have to do. Houston would welcome you with great big Texas sized open arms!

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

On another note, I wonder if FIRST has a formal plan for enforcement of the bag and tag procedures? Something like requiring submission of photographs of the robots (in the open, and then bagged and sealed) and tags on ship day, with copies to the regionals. Maybe even a procedure for appointed representatives to drop in on short notice to verify compliance. The honour system does work pretty well, but there were some reports of suspicious actions that undermine the integrity of the competition.

Logistically, anything but honor system is a nightmare. For those who don't know, the 'tags' for bag and tag are basically numbered zip ties. Assuming the technology isn't there to have electronic tracking of the zip ties( ) here's an idea I just came up with:

Give teams 6 'tags', each with the same number(IIRC it was a random number of 5 or 6 characters, I don't know if it was the same for all teams)
By midnight bag+tag night, require teams to submit a picture of the robot in the bag, as well as a picture up close of the seal on the bag, along with the extra 6 zip ties.
For MAR and FiM, require the same for each time teams use the work periods, maybe even have work periods be 'activated' through TIMS

It could work, though I imagine the idea of 1000+ teams trying to upload their pictures through TIMS one the same day could possibly be a nightmare if teams all wait until late-night, but it's an idea.