Administration problems and unproductive team members

[brushjared]

Hi guys, our team is having trouble with unproductive team members. They all have tasks to complete but always end up screwing around, thus causing our mentors to have to direct their attention to them to get them back on task for a minute or two. We would like to cut these people from the team because they have had countless numbers of oppertunitys to clean up their act but haven't. Addministration in our district won't allow us to cut people due to the fact that we are classfied as a "club" and are required by district policy to be all inclusive. We would also like to have new team members go through an application process but addministration wont allow us to do this either.
Thanks for any advice and thoughts.

[EricH]

Could you get a district administrator or three to a meeting (or six) during build where these members are doing something (or supposed to be doing something)? This would kill multiple birds with one stone:
1) Continued/improved administration support, as they see what you're doing.
2) The administration sees what the problem is, and hopefully allows you to do something about it.
3) If the students in question see administration there, they just might work harder, even if it's just to look good.

The other thing is to make sure the students want to do whatever task they're supposed to be doing. If they don't, you can't really force them to do it. However, if they don't want to do any task, you could just suggest that since there isn't anything they want to do, they could go off in some corner and work on homework until there is something they want to do. A few rounds of that, and they might not be back.

Now, if they want to do a task and just get distracted, that's another issue entirely, and it's not one that is anywhere near easy to solve. It means the students have to learn how to focus. That's not an easy thing to learn.

The other thing to talk to the district about is, "Yes, I know we're supposed to be all-inclusive. However, these X students are using club meetings as a place to screw around in, instead of a place to build a robot in; that is, they aren't really being part of the club. This is hurting the entire club when we're trying to ready a robot for competition. Is there NOTHING we can do besides turn part of our workspace into a study hall for these students so they actually do something productive?"

[Tom Bishop]

As a teacher and coach, I explain to club members that this activity has to be fun for the mentors too. We are volunteers. If students are being disrespectful on a continuous basis it is no longer fun, and I would invite them to leave, give them consequences, or find some way to make it less fun for the offending students. Mostly they just stop coming. I am not sure that there is anything you can do as a student, except to bring this up with the coach. Probably they are aware of it.

You want to be careful not to just drive off students because they appear unproductive. We have club after school. It's a lot to ask for students to be completely productive after 8 hours of school. Look at your team structure. Does everyone have a clear task to do? Is there a student lead for each team? Organization is key to productive teams.

Hope this helps!

[Phyrxes]

If your school district considers your robotics team like a club/activity, which is what the school district I teach in does, does it also provide the ability of disciplinary action against students for violating school or club policies?

Example:
Student is engaging in "horseplay" in the robotics shop, obviously this is a bad idea. But as this is also a code of behavior violation I can take steps towards dealing with the behavior within the school system's discipline plan if I need to.


Edit: We also are able to put in requirements that a student must fulfill if they wish to travel to an event as it is a school field trip.

[Trying to Help]

We have a peer review process before any competition where the students and mentors evaluate each member. Our club secretary has records of attendance for all build meetings and details about fund raising efforts. We group people into three designations: active, inactive and disruptive. Each group has a series of opportunities available to them.

Perhaps if your less productive students knew that they were going to be publicly evaluated, they'd be somewhat more active?

If that doesn't work, you could always try the task approach. "Here are a list of tasks that need to be done. Anyone who doesn't have something to do will be assigned one of these." Usually those are the less attractive chores like using the shop vac to clean up metal shavings.

Trying to Help

[Fe_Will]

I am going to suggest a different approach...

1) Ask yourself what your team's vision is. If your team doesn't have a vision of what it wants to be and do then start by forming one.

2) Take the time to communicate with each of the members (student and mentor) about what strengths they can bring to the table to help the team obtain it's vision. This is time consuming but important since it means a leader will be investing face-to-face time with each individual member.

3) Decide as a leader if an individual is worth the resources to develop into a productive team member.

An old adage comes to mind, "One in the hand is worth two in the bush." You have people regularly attending meetings, why not invest resources in them instead of assuming you can recruit others to fulfill your team's vision?

Every so often there is a thread topic similar to this. Generally it is not a case of the students not being active participators, it is a direct result of the team's leadership. Followers can only grow to be equal to their leader. For further growth the leader must grow as well or the follower must find a new leader.

I highly recommend reading any book by John C. Maxwell. You may find it useful to start with this one.

[SenorZ]

When people feel they are not wanted, they tend to leave. You can keep them in the school club, but remove their names from all FIRST documentation. The school/district has no say in what you do in terms of official FIRST business.

[Colin P]

Use traveling to competition as an incentive for your students to do work. Make certain requirements for work and attitude for them to be able to go. I don't think the district will have a problem with this as they are on the club, but didn't meet certain criteria to participate in the event. Even if it's just an empty threat, it's a good motivator.

[DonRotolo]

I agree with Colin's post above: They're welcome to attend any and all meetings, but travel to competitions is limited to productive members. Define "productive" very clearly and objectively.

Also a mentor discussion with administration may be helpful, invite your area's FRC Senior Mentor.

[GlassPrison142]

Our team has had this problem before. With over 50 members on our team, only about 10 do real work. The rest are friends of friends of friends who come to get out of school to go on competitions. While we were building our prototype during september some were already making buttons. Personally I also think having a "spirit" department really isn't... well anything. What work can the "Spirit" department do during build season/off season? Spirit is for competitions.

I always felt spirit and art, buttons, banners and all that goes with it has its own place, but it needs to be balanced. with ours there is no balance. Theres a general feeling that "oh, there will always be people to build the robot" when most of us are graduating. Someone needs to set up, and as of right now, no one is that isn't a senior or a junior. When we were out on the quarterfinals in Raleigh this year, people were legitimately more upset that we lost the spirit award than our place in the semi-finals. We (and the people who share the same opinions) tried to tell them that the spirit award is about the gracious professionalism part of it, and not just being obnoxious in the stands, as we (they) were. Either way though, you cant force people who don't want to build to build. Even though it is ROBOTICS. /end rant

My neck is going to get ringed if anyone on my team finds this post. This is basically treason

[1986titans]

Reading between the lines on the last post, it sounds like some of the students might not know "how to build robots" (as in the mechanical, electrical, programming aspects), so they're defaulting to something they are already comfortable with. Instead of airing out team problems here, it might be helpful to hold team workshops so these students will have something to do.

[GlassPrison142]

Originally Posted by 1986titans

Reading between the lines on the last post, it sounds like some of the students might not know "how to build robots" (as in the mechanical, electrical, programming aspects), so they're defaulting to something they are already comfortable with. Instead of airing out team problems here, it might be helpful to hold team workshops so these students will have something to do.

Seminars were held, interest was lost quickly.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by GlassPrison142

My neck is going to get ringed if anyone on my team finds this post. This is basically treason

Sounds uncomfortable.

(Wrung?)

[RoboMom]

There are many teams who formalize the process and the expectations on code of conduct/student contract. Some even have a "Skill and Requirement Inventory". These documents are part of the Team Handbook.

Some of these great examples are posted in the white papers here or in threads. Others can be found by searching on the internet.

I am slowing putting together a collection for NEMO.

[Jon Stratis]

What are the major goals for your team? The primary focus of FIRST is inspiration. People who don't seem to "get it" are often those you need to reach out to the most in order to inspire.

We have some students on our team who are definitely inspired. Specifically, I can think of one new member who came to our summer camp and "just got it" - she shows up to every meeting excited and energetic, and spends the whole time working. I'd say she's one of our best members this year, and is going to be amazing in years to come.

On the flip side, we have students who aren't as inspired. They require more supervision and direction as we go through the season. As mentors, we spend time thinking and talking about those members in an effort to determine how to fit them into the team better. Sometimes you just need to take a different approach with them. Others, they're getting off-track because they're bored and you need to give them more challenging work. And others simply aren't well suited for the job they're doing for the team, and need to look at moving into a different position.

We've been going strong for 5 years and haven't kicked anyone out, and short of serious disciplinary problems, I doubt we ever will. We've had challenging students before, and have had to work hard to figure out the best fit and approach for a student, but we've never had someone we couldn't reach.