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Unread 05-10-2011, 07:47
jwfoss jwfoss is offline
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Custom Solenoid Breakout

Last year our electrical sub-team was less than happy with the wiring of the solenoids for all of our pneumatics, and thought of a better option. During the offseason they began to develop as custom solenoid breakout to replace the 2011 Solenoid Breakout Card. Functionally the only difference is that instead of using pwm style cables the custom design uses RJ45 or RJ11 connectors. Note that this would not replace the cRio module, only the Breakout Card that plugs into it.

I admit that my role is primarally mechanical, but the design they showed me was impressive and I would love to see it implemented on our future robots.

The question is, is this legal to do. If it is, great, we will post a whitepaper how what they have done and perhaps instuctions on how do build your own.

From the 2011 Competition Manual We have the following rules that may be applicable:
<R43> Custom circuits shall NOT directly alter the power pathways between the battery, PD Board, speed controllers, relays, motors, or other elements of the robot control system (including the power pathways to other sensors or circuits). Custom high impedance voltage monitoring or low impedance current monitoring circuitry connected to the ROBOT’S electrical system is acceptable, because the effect on the ROBOT outputs should be inconsequential.

<R48> All electrical loads (motors, actuators, compressors) must be supplied by an approved power regulating device (speed controller, relay module, or Digital Sidecar PWM port) that is controlled by the cRIO-FRC on the ROBOT.

<R62> All outputs from sensors, custom circuits and additional electronics shall connect to only the following:
A. other custom circuits, or
B. additional COTS electronics, or
C. input ports on the Digital Sidecar, or
D. input ports on the Analog Breakout, or
E. the RS-232 DB-9 RS-232 port on the cRIO-FRC, or

<R67> Items specifically PROHIBITED from use on the ROBOT include:
B. Any pneumatic part or component that has been altered, modified, machined, coated, or changed from its original “out of the box” condition, except as required for normal assembly with other components. The only acceptable modifications are:
• Wiring for pneumatic devices may be modified to interface with the control system.
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Last edited by jwfoss : 05-10-2011 at 07:50. Reason: typo, and added info
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Unread 05-10-2011, 08:45
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Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

Justin,
Under the 2011 rules there are several references to the use of breakout boards. Specifically, power can only be routed from the PD to one, two, or three breakout boards. See R38, R39, R40. As such you would not be able to power the solenoids under the 2011 rules. As the 2012 rules have not been released, I cannot say what that document may contain. As always, the GDC through the Q&A will have the final say.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 09:03
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

Al, I understand the rules you are quoting, perhaps a direct question to the GDC would be the best way to go about this.

What is the best way to contact them "out of season"?

My understanding of the design the electrical guy have is exactly the same functionally as what is sold by AndyMark and Provided in the kit. All the solenoid breakout card does is turn the port on top of the cRio Modules into pinouts. The fact that there are two versions of the breakout card currently also supports this idea.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 09:15
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

Justin,
I didn't think that the Andymark was different, just a second source of the product. I would try contacting either Kate Pilotte or Collin Fultz with the design docs. My guess is that if allowed, there would be an obvious caveat that use of the product may violate NI warranties on the solenoid module. It never hurts to ask.
I don't mind the PWM cables since we make our own. The pins are getting smaller for my hands. I have never been happy with RJ45 or RJ11 except for phone use and ethernet. Some audio products are now using them for interconnect and to me that is just not a professional looking installation. Personal preference is all.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 09:29
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

Based on the rules from 2011 (as Al said), my interpretation is illegal.

However,

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...ical-resources has a file called "Solenoid package" (a zip) which contains a PDF schematic. In it, you find that the solenoid bumper does just take the outputs and route them to headers.

Since it is done this way, I think it would be reasonable to allow replacement of this breakout by teams. I also think that it would be reasonable to allow direct wiring to a DB25, as a team could then build a multipin cable connecting the solenoid outputs to a valve manifold.

The way it is now (direct wiring outputs to solenoids), there isn't any real reason to restrict directly wiring to the solenoid module.

But that is my opinion.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 09:46
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

I very much dislike the 2 pin header cables that come in the KOP. We throw them away.

A couple of years ago we found a much much nicer 2 pin header cable assembly that we use to plug into the breakout. It makes for a much easier job wiring the solenoids.

Problem is we cannot figure out where we bought these cables. If anyone know where please post the info.
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Unread 05-10-2011, 10:13
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

Our team had similar trouble in the past with all of the breakout boards, but decided to go another route. This year we used a header and a small piece of proto board to connect the existing break out boards to a short converter cable with a more standard D type connector at the end. This short converter cable has the standard D connector end mounted rigidly to the same board as the CRio,

The new pigtail cable adaptor makes it simple and easy to plug in a few large connectors from a wiring harness to the electronics board instead of a maze of PWM cables. Our wiring is starting to look a lot more like what you might find in a typical car engine compartment. The pigtail converter cable that makes this possible is quick and easy to build, low cost, and seems to be much more robust than individual PWM cables.

We took this approach only partly for reliability. The bigger reason was money. Our team wanted several working robots. A dedicated demo robot, a practice robot, and wanted to keep some of the older robots around for demos and learning. In the past our team was nbever able to do this because we only have two CRios, and no money to buy more right now, and during the build season old robots get canalized for parts. But, doing it this way now gives us a modular electronics package that can be swapped between robots by only removing a few standard connectors.

We have also done this with the digital i/o board but that took more effort because you needed an unusual 13X3 header. We could not find the exact connector from our usual sources and needed to make our own from smaller connectors. The simple process of moving from several 3 pin PWM connectors to a single larger connector seems to make a huge difference in ease of use and ruggedness without the need to fully replace the existing breakout boards.

Tom
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Unread 05-10-2011, 10:38
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

You could just leave the modules/digital sidecar on the robot and disconnect the multipin connector on the cRio, instead of going from db25->solenoid breakout -> 8x2 header -> d-sub again. You would then go db25 -> (disconnect here when removing cRio) -> solenoid breakout -> 8x2 header -> robot
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Unread 05-10-2011, 10:38
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Re: Custom Solenoid Breakout

We take this cable: http://www.pimfg.com/Product-Detail/ID-22

splice it to the two leads on the valve, solder it and cover with heat shrink tubing

we use this valves: MAC 46A-AA2-JDAA-1BA
http://macvalves.com/valves/4-way-valves/46-series/http://macvalves.com/valves/4-way-valves/46-series/

The valves are super easy to work with and for our usage we only have one solenoid to deal with.

Easier than dealing with the two solenoid, and much cheaper. About 40 bucks. And the wire above is much easier to deal with.
.
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Last edited by ebarker : 05-10-2011 at 10:41.
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