[DFTF] Control System Limbo...

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

Bottom line. There is no way for a rookie team to obtain a new cRIO that they can use to program a practice robot prior to the FIRST season.

You've got plenty of nearby teams to talk to. I would be very surprised if none of them had an 8-slot cRIO they could let you borrow.

What should I do? Should i buy a Vex controller? Should I try to buy or borrow a cRIO FRC1? Should I just roll my own controller?

Thinking just slightly outside the box, how about partnering with a Beta Test team? That way you could buy a new 4-slot cRIO and use it. If my understanding of geography is not faulty, the Killer Bees aren't far from you at all.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Thinking just slightly outside the box, how about partnering with a Beta Test team? That way you could buy a new 4-slot cRIO and use it. If my understanding of geography is not faulty, the Killer Bees aren't far from you at all.

Your understanding of geography isn't faulty, but Dr. Joe hasn't updated his location in his profile to reflect that he is in the Boston area (as posted here).

But yes, that would be very helpful on all counts. Not only do you get practice, but the Beta team gets feedback on "rookies are going to need a lot of help on X, Y, and Z, but on A and B, they'll sail right through it".

[mesamb1]

Not that National Instruments will like this, but...
All you need is the DVD. The FRC labview dvd has all of the firmware(they called utilities, but it is firmware plus an imaging tool). the latest images for the CRIO are on the FIRST website(here. For the new system you need image on the CRIO and install the WPI VI for labview(especially if your coding in that)

The instructions on installing the dvd are here. The Labview license allows install as many computers as a team needs, so if another team needs it on your computer I think your fine.

[Greg McKaskle]

NI is fine with you using the software on the DVD. The issue is that the 4 slot doesn't have the same enet or FPGA chip. It needs a new image and is only supported by the latest LV edition, not the edition shipped last year, but the one which will ship and is currently being integrated and tested in the Beta program.

This changeover doesn't happen each year -- thank goodness -- but when it does, it causes a synchronization bubble that is working its way through the system during this offseason. I believe that FIRST doesn't expect most rookies to be purchasing controllers, building robots, etc. months and months before kickoff. If you are that rookie team, you seem to be caught on the wrong side of the bubble. The eight slots were still available until a few months ago, and as mentioned, there are thousands in the community. You may even be able to borrow one from a local NI rep.

Greg McKaskle

[Mr. Lim]

A swerve is ambitious enough as it is, don't obfuscate the process any more by developing your software on a different platform.

I echo the sentiments that you should contact a nearby team for an 8-slot cRIO. I would find it hard to believe that there isn't a nearby veteran team who couldn't outright lend one to you.

Heck, anyone who has ever used a DeWalt on an FRC robot should feel downright obligated.

But I digress.

There are little details involving the development tools for the cRIO for which there is no replacement for experience. The toolchain is powerful, but there are tiny details which we experienced folk take for granted...

Believe me, I just stepped through the entire process of:
-configuring the radio/router/ap
-installing NetBeans, JDK
-adding the NetBeans Plugins
-learning/assigning IP addresses for all devices
-creating firewall exceptions for required applications
-installing the NI Tools
-flashing the cRIO
-creating, compiling, uploading a sample program
-installing the driver station software
etc...

Not hard once you figure it all out for the first time, but still a considerable head-end investment that's worth doing now, and having you and a few students do multiple times so they know it back and forwards.

[Joe Johnson]

Thanks all.

As I type, I am in Taiwan, ROC. There is an offer in my inbox for an 8 slot loaner. I will deal with it when I get back to Boston.

Speaking of which, I have updated my profile to reflect my new location.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Cheers,
Joe J.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Joe,
As a reminder, the Crio needs a 24 volt power supply (19-30 is the published spec, I believe). The Power Distribution Panel (PD in First Speak) provides a boost regulator output at 24 volts for this purpose. The regulator will continue to run down to about 4.5 volts at robot battery input. With the required voltage jumper on the slot 1 analog module, the Crio input sense will disable all output when the robot battery falls to about 5.5 volts so that the Crio will not reboot during a brownout.