[EWCP]-11-27-11 Drivetrain Design

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

Got you covered bud.



- Sunny G.

You are a scholar and a gentleman!

[Madison]

Not sure what that exchange offers to this discussion. Perhaps a better use of the space would be to explain why you think the comment deserves a facepalm?

[sdcantrell56]

Perhaps if I felt like dignifying that response with an actual one I would have. I certainly appreciate the incite though...

[Madison]

Originally Posted by animenerdjohn

How can you do a drivetrain presentation without JVN of 148? I mean 148 won worlds with a non-skid drivetrain, which in itself is impressive if you look at history - but on top of that they invented 9 wheel drive and helped spearhead the new articulating drive method. 148 and JVN work with IFI who designed and makes the most popular traction wheels available. I'm not trying to put them on a pedestal, but I feel like having them in the discussion would be beneficial.

As others have already mentioned, John's done a lot of great things to advance the art of effective drive design. The IFI product line is top notch and offers a lot to FIRST teams and his design calculator spreadsheet is a tremendous asset -- maybe the best thing he's ever done, as far as I'm concerned.

The nonadrive is cool, though articulating drives have been around for ages and have seen all sorts of uses. Those that spring to mind immediately include 157 in 1999, 810 in 2002, and 358 in 2003, but finding pictures of any of those might be impossible these days. I'm sure there've been a lot more.

Back in the day, we couldn't just log onto the internet and mail order a bunch of awesome gearboxes and wheels. We barely even had an internet, actually. The consequence was that teams operated in far more of a vacuum than they do now and there was a much greater variety of robot designs -- for better and for worse.

Hindsight is 20/20, of course, and I wish that we would've had the foresight to better document the earlier years of FIRST robots. There was a lot of awesome work going on -- teams were more closely aligned with their sponsors in those times -- and a lot of really interesting designs saw the spotlight.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by thefro526

~15 Minutes talking about the advantages of an omni-directional drive vs a standard skid steer and the inverse.

Good luck editing the hours of video of mecanum driving circles around traction drive to just 15 minutes!

I like the idea of having a main show and then mini-shows more more indepth on spefic drivetrains for those interested.

[Andy Baker]

Many of us have learned tons from Dr. Joe over the years, and it is very exciting to see him back as an FRC mentor. Having him on this cast as a guest is outstanding. I would like to hear his answers to these things:

1. What was the design process for (arguably) the best FRC robot ever, ChiefDelphi's 2000 robot?
2. Why did ChiefDelphi choose to design (arguably) the most complex, convoluted drive train in 2001?

I'll have my popcorn ready, listening for "what to do" and "what not to do".

Andy B.

[LeelandS]

Some big names associated with some big drive systems are coming onto the next show; notably, people partially behind the original Swerve, 6-Wheel Swerve and Emperor Swerve. As a general question not specific to those 3 systems, I'd like to know some of the process that went into designing a new drive system.

I don't want to make the question much more specific than that, as I don't want to limit the scope of the discussion, but here are a few things I'd specifically like to hear about:

1. What pushed you to want to make a new drive system?
2. What went into the design process?
3. Did you treat it like any other system a team would never have done before (prototype in pre-season, iterate until acceptable for the season)?
4. This one is actually more for Dr.Joe, just out of personal curiosity: How does it make you feel that a system you had a major hand in has evolved into one that has been not only been used succesfully by some big name teams, but iterated into so many different variations?

Can't wait for this cast! If only if was a day before (11-26 )

[~Cory~]

I would like to hear some discussion on how much to drop the center wheel west coast drives.


And a quick question: I just started listening to these. Has a shown been done on control for each drive? E.g. tank with joysticks vs. steering wheel w/ throttle? Straight drive vs field orientated?

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by ~Cory~

I would like to hear some discussion on how much to drop the center wheel west coast drives.

And a quick question: I just started listening to these. Has a shown been done on control for each drive? E.g. tank with joysticks vs. steering wheel w/ throttle? Straight drive vs field orientated?

Center drop is center drop, whether or not it's a WCD or a standard drive. What really matters is CoG, wheel configuration, and desired point of rotation. We will go into this more during the cast.

We haven't done a controls cast yet, I'm sure we'll get into some brief controls discussion in the next cast, and if we're not specific enough, I'm sure we can revisit the subject at a later date.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by thefro526

We haven't done a controls cast yet, I'm sure we'll get into some brief controls discussion in the next cast, and if we're not specific enough, I'm sure we can revisit the subject at a later date.

I'll add that to our list of microcasts... finally, something I'm qualified to talk on.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by IKE

I would love a brief discussion on NBDs. If for no other reason than to remind the new folks about the whitepaper out there.

Also, a drivetrain discussion probably should include a mention of "The Kit-Bot on Steriods". Simbots do such a great job with their resources, and a few really good teams in Michigan have apparently taken this to heart and have been doing quite well with the philosophy. With so many great COTS components available today, Custom is only better if your goal is to be custom, or you develop it into a "better" solution which is a lot of resource. If your goal is on field performance remember, Unicorns are best left for fables and tall tales. Thoroughbreds require a lot of work and excellent breeding to truly perform. Camels, Mules, and elephants have historically gotten the job done.

Speaking of the Kitbot on Steroids and drivetrain design, we just released a new presentation on both:

http://www.simbotics.org/files/pdf/d...ain-design.pdf

Check it out. More goodies, including an updated video with detailed instructions on how to build the KoS are coming soon!

[Dr Theta]

Karthik you just made my day! New presentations to look through tonight .

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Speaking of the Kitbot on Steroids and drivetrain design, we just released a new presentation on both:

http://www.simbotics.org/files/pdf/d...ain-design.pdf

Check it out. More goodies, including an updated video with detailed instructions on how to build the KoS are coming soon!

Wow, that's the most comprehensive presentation on drivetrain design I've ever seen. Kudos.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Speaking of the Kitbot on Steroids and drivetrain design, we just released a new presentation on both:

http://www.simbotics.org/files/pdf/d...ain-design.pdf

Check it out. More goodies, including an updated video with detailed instructions on how to build the KoS are coming soon!

This is a fantastic presentation, Karthik. How long does it take Ben to give it? I have been struggling to cover drive design in a 45 minute session and if y'all can give such a comprehensive look at it in that same time, I'm retiring.

Originally Posted by Karthik

Speaking of the Kitbot on Steroids and drivetrain design, we just released a new presentation on both:

http://www.simbotics.org/files/pdf/d...ain-design.pdf

Check it out. More goodies, including an updated video with detailed instructions on how to build the KoS are coming soon!

YAY!