What makes FRC a sport?

[staplemonx]

JJ's definition of a sport

team based = check

more that 2 players per side

physical contact between players = check
low to moderate level of scoring = check

(hockey and soccer low scoring, foot ball moderate, basketball high level of scoring)

players and coaches can get penalties = check
Play on the field is fluid = check
Requires skill, practice and luck to win = check

PS i do not think that baseball is a sport. no penalties and not fluid. Tennis is not a sport, no physical contact. Cross country not a sport, no scoring just measurements (time, distance, etc).

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

JJ's definition of a sport

You're the only one that defines sport like this.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Does it matter if it is or is not considered a sport?

It doesn't especially matter to me personally, but we have to consider what other people think about it. For instance, it might matter whether or not it qualifies as a sport according to a school's funding criteria or extracurricular activity policy.

[Basel A]

I would personally argue FRC is not a sport because the primary objective of a sports competition is either (a) entertainment or (b) to see who is best at the sport. The goal of FRC is neither. We do FRC to inspire and to be inspired.

Sports are self-absorbed and have no meaning outside themselves. FRC has greater aspirations and influences.

[mathking]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

JJ's definition of a sport

Cross country not a sport, no scoring just measurements (time, distance, etc).

Cross country is scored, not measured, to determine the winner.

[staplemonx]

Here are a few more items that can be used in this discussion

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/08/considered-sport/

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/10/cost-kid/

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/0...orting-events/

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

PS i do not think that baseball is a sport. no penalties and not fluid.

I completely disagree, baseball is no less fluid than football. While baseball doesnt explicitly call things "penalties" it has its fair share. Hitting a batter with a pitch is directly comparable to a kickoff going out of bounds in football, which is called a "penalty". Also, umpires can call a balk on a pitcher. You could even consider walking a batter a penalty.

Back on topic, this is mainly semantics, but I dont think that FRC is a sport, it is the organization behind the sport. I think that Logomotion, Breakaway, etc are all individual sports. This is like calling the NFL a sport, when the sport is actually football. I see no reason why an individual seasons game should not be considered a sport.

[PAR_WIG1350]

We are trying to find an absolute, "correct" definition of "sport", but in doing so we are dooming ourselves to failure. The concept of sports was fabricated by humans, and thus only exists in our own minds. the moniker "sport" carries false wight.

To say that something is a sport triggers certain responses in the brain. To make a reference to computers, "sport" is like a class. when something is declared to be a sport, it inherits some features from the "sport" class. Does every subclass or instance of sport need to use every feature? No, it doesn't. Furthermore, other objects and classes that are unrelated to the "sport" class can have the same features and functions as the sports class.

At a certain point, it simply becomes easier to make an object an instance of the "sport" class rather than creating a separate class. If the required features are included in the "sport" class already, it makes more sense to use the "sport" class since it avoids reinventing the proverbial wheel.

Our brains do much the same thing when we look at things in life. If something is called a sport, the brain will give it certain attributes associated with sports. Similarly, if something shares enough characteristics with a sport, the brain will associate it with sports.

This brings us neatly back to the beginning; a sport is simply as loose set of fabricated characteristics that is different from person to person which one can choose to apply to different activities as they see fit. Whether something is or isn't a sport has nothing to do with its value or the lessons it can teach. It is simply a tag we place on things to identify them more easily based on our personal idea of what that tag means. The correct answer is truly a personal matter.

[torihoelscher]

FRC is a sport because it uses your mind. Your mind is getting a workout, it doesnt entirely have to be a physical type of activity. Its strategy, thats what makes it a sport because without strategy in baseball, football, golf, cross country, and etc there would be no way to win the game. I think its a sport because like other sports you cheer and get adrenaline running through you and we do compete. Heck, when I write software my hands shake with adrenaline.

Robotics is a sport no if, ands, or buts about it.

[JamesCH95]

Whoever thinks that FRC is not physically demanding has not done it before. There are few times I sleep so soundly as I do after an FRC build season and regional.

I imagine these are the same people who don't think racing (cars) is a sport. I've had to be pulled out a car by my teammates because I was so exhausted at the end of an endurance stint.

I say this being a collegiate athlete in soccer, volleyball, and ultimate frisbee, as well as an FRC driver and race car driver, and alpine ski racing in HS. All of these are sports in their own right, all are physically demanding (especially if you take them seriously), all are mentally demanding, all are highly competitive. All require a focused strategy, focus, control, creativity, and a dash of luck.

These are all sports in my opinion, having competed in them at highly demanding levels.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Whoever thinks that FRC is not physically demanding has not done it before. There are few times I sleep so soundly as I do after an FRC build season and regional.

There is a huge differense between something being tiring and some thing requiring "physical exertion" as the definition of sport states. I don't argue at all that build season and competitions where you down, however it is not because I am physically exerting my self.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Is NASCAR racing a sport?

It requires significant physical fitness to maintain brain function, let alone lightning-fast reflexes, in sustained 3g turns for several hours at a time (not to say they drivers experience 3gs for the entirety of the race, just during the long turns). Add onto that a giant weight strapped to your head (helmet) and steering effort and you've got a very physically demanding activity.

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

There is a huge differense between something being tiring and some thing requiring "physical exertion" as the definition of sport states. I don't argue at all that build season and competitions where you down, however it is not because I am physically exerting my self.

I mean this as an honest question: have you ever been a student driver?

I thought that being a driver was physically demanding. It certainly got my heart rate up and exercised my circulatory system. Picking up and moving the robot over and over is quite an exercise, although arguably a side-effect of FRC and not directly part of the competition.

[LemmingBot]

I think its a sport in the same way horse racing is a sport.
. Several humans are committed in making one champion horse/robot
. Victory depends on how well the driver/jockey can play off their bot's/horse's strengths.
. Extremely long registration names

[logank013]

I personally don't consider robotics a sport. I do think that FRC is very borderline to a sport but most members on a team can not be considered athletes.

I have one problem that I can't see past when considering robotics a sport. When you look at this definition brought up in an earlier post, I totally agree with everything he said when breaking down the definition.

Originally Posted by Jon Stratis

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition Defines Sport as:


Lets break it down piece by piece:
an individual or group activity I don't think anyone will argue this.
pursued for exercise or pleasure I don't know about your team, but our team has fun, and derives pleasure from seeing the robot compete.
often involving the testing of physical capabilities and taking the form of a competitive game The basic structure of FIRST competitions is a competitive game. Further, it is a test of physical capabilities - of the robot, not the student.

It's a question of how you define the competitor in the activity. If your friend has any doubts that your robot is a fierce competitor that requires all the athleticism and endurance he thinks of in sports, first show him a video of a hard-hitting match. Then tell him he can stand in for one of the robots, and you'll have paramedics standing by to reattach his severed limbs when he's done

But there is something drastically missing when thinking like this. When I compare robotics to football, they are so super similar. Let me break it down. In Football, You have a set of rules that tend to change in some sort of way from year to year. Essentially, you have a team of coaches and general managers who are trying to figure out what they can do to their team to figure out how to play the game the best. They scout out players and see who they can pick up or see who they can draft to make their team great. Each player has some set of abilities that gets them noticed and that is how the general manager chooses who they want. Then, their team is pretty much set in stone and they can make little tweeks to their team throughout the season to try to get the perfect team for playoffs.

Now let's look at FRC. You see, we are like the coaches. We get the game manual or the set of rules that we have to follow and we have to break them down to see what abilities our robots need in order to make our robot great. Don't you see now that each little part of our robot is like a player in the game of football. Then, we have scouts. The scouts jobs are to look out for robots who have certain abilities that they need in order to make the alliance great. Each robot that is drafted is made up of several different little players. One robot may be the offense. The second robot may be the defense. The third robot may be the special robot or the special teams robot.

So now the real question comes down to this. Would you ever think that the general manager is playing the game of football? Of course not! He isn't on the field during those 60 minutes of regulation. Now of course, he does impact the team. So do the coaches. They impact the team which is why they are so important to the game of football. That is why they get payed a similar salary as football players. Do you understand what I'm saying? We are the coaches, managers, and scouts of a football team. Our robot is the team. As the general managers of our robot, we choose what we want our robot to do but once we design and build it (Just like actual football coaches and GMs do!), our team or our robot does all the work. The only "athletes" I'd consider in FRC are those on the drive team. They work with the robot and they have to have split second analysis's to make a decision. Those 3 or 4 student are the ones they deserve the title of a sport. Those 3 or 4 are the ones that should be getting the sport letter in high school. Should the coaches of our sports team get sport letters? No! that's why they don't. So if most of the robotics team are coaches and general managers, why should we expect to get sports letters?

My Final analysis is that FRC is built very much like a sport. Most of the arguments brought up about FRC being a sport is the fact that many team member want to be considered athletes. Are we athletes? Should we be getting the same letter on our jackets as Football players? I say no to both of those. I think that robotics has 3 or 4 athletes per team. Those 3 or 4 people are those who are the drive team. The rest of us in FRC are like the Coaches, General Managers, and Scouts of NFL teams. With that said, we are a structured club. Not to be considered athletes of a sport. We are super important to FRC but once our robots are deigned, our robots are the ones who actually play the sport. Our pit team is like the doctors and medical staff in the locker room. Our Scouting team is the set of scouts and GM who are trying to figure out who to draft to make our team better. Our Drive team members are a mixture of the Coaches, Coordinators, and football players who are the ones who make the tough calls and last second decisions when playing. That is my analysis of comparing robotics to football.

The real question that should be asked isn't "Is FRC a sport?". It should be "Do you consider yourself an athlete?" and I think anyone who isn't on the drive team isn't really an athlete when at a robotics event. Opinion's? Thanks

[bobjones227]

Originally Posted by logank013

The real question that should be asked isn't "Is FRC a sport?". It should be "Do you consider yourself an athlete?" and I think anyone who isn't on the drive team isn't really an athlete when at a robotics event. Opinion's? Thanks

As a pit scouter and match strategy person, I view FRC as being a sport. There's more to a sport than the players/athletes (Drive Team). People in the stands are often taking data on competing teams, I'm going to other teams and making a strategy for the upcoming matches, and the pit crew helps repair the robot. Everyone is part of the team. I know the definition may not specifically state something like FRC as a "sport", but it definitely requires a great deal of teamwork and dedication, much like any other sport.

I hope this didn't come off as overly aggressive.

[logank013]

Originally Posted by bobjones227

As a pit scouter and match strategy person, I view FRC as being a sport. There's more to a sport than the players/athletes (Drive Team). People in the stands are often taking data on competing teams, I'm going to other teams and making a strategy for the upcoming matches, and the pit crew helps repair the robot. Everyone is part of the team. I know the definition may not specifically state something like FRC as a "sport", but it definitely requires a great deal of teamwork and dedication, much like any other sport.

I hope this didn't come off as overly aggressive.

It wasn't aggressive. So do you consider yourself an athlete. I can accept if people call FRC a sport, but I won't consider anyone besides the drive team as athletes. And I'm in a similar situation to you as I'm basically the team's Head strategist.