What makes FRC a sport?

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

JJ's definition of a sport

You're the only one that defines sport like this.

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Does it matter if it is or is not considered a sport?

It doesn't especially matter to me personally, but we have to consider what other people think about it. For instance, it might matter whether or not it qualifies as a sport according to a school's funding criteria or extracurricular activity policy.

[Basel A]

I would personally argue FRC is not a sport because the primary objective of a sports competition is either (a) entertainment or (b) to see who is best at the sport. The goal of FRC is neither. We do FRC to inspire and to be inspired.

Sports are self-absorbed and have no meaning outside themselves. FRC has greater aspirations and influences.

[mathking]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

JJ's definition of a sport

Cross country not a sport, no scoring just measurements (time, distance, etc).

Cross country is scored, not measured, to determine the winner.

[staplemonx]

Here are a few more items that can be used in this discussion

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/08/considered-sport/

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/10/cost-kid/

http://www.atomicrobotics.com/2011/0...orting-events/

[Peyton Yeung]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

While I love FIRST it doesn't compare to a physical sport in the type of adrenaline you get when competing. Now I'm not saying you/I don't get pumped up and excited and nervous and all that comes with competing but its not the same as working up a sweat and knocking down a game winning 3 pointer or something like that.

FIRST is a sport its just a different form of a sport.

Um I'm a driver and when I compete in high intensity matches and my hands start shaking I think that's the adrenaline kicking in. This is especially true when you score the winning piece or block the best bot.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by staplemonx

PS i do not think that baseball is a sport. no penalties and not fluid.

I completely disagree, baseball is no less fluid than football. While baseball doesnt explicitly call things "penalties" it has its fair share. Hitting a batter with a pitch is directly comparable to a kickoff going out of bounds in football, which is called a "penalty". Also, umpires can call a balk on a pitcher. You could even consider walking a batter a penalty.

Back on topic, this is mainly semantics, but I dont think that FRC is a sport, it is the organization behind the sport. I think that Logomotion, Breakaway, etc are all individual sports. This is like calling the NFL a sport, when the sport is actually football. I see no reason why an individual seasons game should not be considered a sport.

[PAR_WIG1350]

We are trying to find an absolute, "correct" definition of "sport", but in doing so we are dooming ourselves to failure. The concept of sports was fabricated by humans, and thus only exists in our own minds. the moniker "sport" carries false wight.

To say that something is a sport triggers certain responses in the brain. To make a reference to computers, "sport" is like a class. when something is declared to be a sport, it inherits some features from the "sport" class. Does every subclass or instance of sport need to use every feature? No, it doesn't. Furthermore, other objects and classes that are unrelated to the "sport" class can have the same features and functions as the sports class.

At a certain point, it simply becomes easier to make an object an instance of the "sport" class rather than creating a separate class. If the required features are included in the "sport" class already, it makes more sense to use the "sport" class since it avoids reinventing the proverbial wheel.

Our brains do much the same thing when we look at things in life. If something is called a sport, the brain will give it certain attributes associated with sports. Similarly, if something shares enough characteristics with a sport, the brain will associate it with sports.

This brings us neatly back to the beginning; a sport is simply as loose set of fabricated characteristics that is different from person to person which one can choose to apply to different activities as they see fit. Whether something is or isn't a sport has nothing to do with its value or the lessons it can teach. It is simply a tag we place on things to identify them more easily based on our personal idea of what that tag means. The correct answer is truly a personal matter.

[torihoelscher]

FRC is a sport because it uses your mind. Your mind is getting a workout, it doesnt entirely have to be a physical type of activity. Its strategy, thats what makes it a sport because without strategy in baseball, football, golf, cross country, and etc there would be no way to win the game. I think its a sport because like other sports you cheer and get adrenaline running through you and we do compete. Heck, when I write software my hands shake with adrenaline.

Robotics is a sport no if, ands, or buts about it.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Tubatroopa

Um I'm a driver and when I compete in high intensity matches and my hands start shaking I think that's the adrenaline kicking in. This is especially true when you score the winning piece or block the best bot.

Yes I agree, when I was a driver there was lots of adrenaline but it wasn't the same type of adrenaline that I get when I play physicals sports. Hence my "it isn't the same type of adrenaline" comment.

Originally Posted by Tubatroopa

Um I'm a driver and when I compete in high intensity matches and my hands start shaking I think that's the adrenaline kicking in. This is especially true when you score the winning piece or block the best bot.

Agreed. When you're up there, especially in the last few matches, things can get pretty intense. Not intense like a physical sport. Intense in your mind. Things go on in there that you can only experience in a heated match of FRC.

[Duke461]

I wrote a hefty essay above and no one's commented about it.
Thoughts? Questions? Comments? Remarks? Jokes? C'mon people

EDIT: Oh, three other things:
Commoner's definitions should not be applicable (no offense)
Adrenaline Rushes are not exactly physical exertion.

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

The correct answer is truly a personal matter.

While maybe on a very philosophical level this is true, as tristan lall pointed out, "For instance, it might matter whether or not it qualifies as a sport according to a school's funding criteria or extracurricular activity policy." Thus, an absolute definition should be a part of this discussion.

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition Defines Sport as:

Evidently, the dictionary is wrong. I would define a "sport" as a leisure activity that involves some amount of skill (drawing a little from the archaic version of the word), and FIRST definitely <bias> takes more skill than some other sports. </bias>

My $0.02

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Sports are self-absorbed and have no meaning outside themselves. FRC has greater aspirations and influences.

This is baseless and completely inaccurate, as some one who played sports growing up, continues to play a sport at a high level and coaches and has coached youth through college programs I can assure you that sports have influenced many more kids than programs like FIRST have. Any one who thinks that the primary impact of sports on 99% of its participants has anything to do with on field results never has coached or been coached effectively.

Originally Posted by staplemonx

JJ's definition of a sport

team based = check

more that 2 players per side

physical contact between players = check
low to moderate level of scoring = check

(hockey and soccer low scoring, foot ball moderate, basketball high level of scoring)

players and coaches can get penalties = check
Play on the field is fluid = check
Requires skill, practice and luck to win = check

PS i do not think that baseball is a sport. no penalties and not fluid. Tennis is not a sport, no physical contact. Cross country not a sport, no scoring just measurements (time, distance, etc).

Originally Posted by ThaineP

Evidently, the dictionary is wrong. I would define a "sport" as a leisure activity that involves some amount of skill (drawing a little from the archaic version of the word), and FIRST definitely <bias> takes more skill than some other sports. </bias>

My $0.02

You can't change the definition of sport then argue that because of your definition something is a sport, that is clearly crazy way to present a point. Sport is a word in the English language that is well defined, let’s stick to it. Both of your definitions clearly do not include things that are well established as sports and include things that are not.

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I would say FIRST is more of a sport of the mind than an actual sport. I have been very active in both physical sports(soccer, football, basketball, etc.) and sports of the mind(FIRST, poker, chess, etc.).

While I love FIRST it doesn't compare to a physical sport in the type of adrenaline you get when competing. Now I'm not saying you/I don't get pumped up and excited and nervous and all that comes with competing but its not the same as working up a sweat and knocking down a game winning 3 pointer or something like that.

FIRST is a sport its just a different form of a sport.

Sports by definition require physical exertion. What you are calling sports of the mind are games or competitions. While sports can also frequently be considered games or competitions they are not the same thing.

Originally Posted by EricH

If poker is a sport (look, it's shown on both ESPN and FSN), then robotics, where you lift weights (robot parts) and carry them, and where you throw things to try to hit targets, is a sport.

Or, to put it another way: It's a sport where you build your own athlete.

I am assuming you aren't serious but in case you were or other people thought you were something being on a Sports Network does not in its self qualify it as being a sport, nor does something not being on a sports network disqualify it.

Originally Posted by kws4000

FRC is a sport of the mind. I have been in Cross-Country & Track and it is also more of a sport of the mind, but just as much of the body. You need the head to keep going, the body will naturally go along.

Sports are by definition physical (see every dictionary definition quoted so far. Sports also require a huge amount of mental strength, regardless of the sport. In a game like football, rugby or basketball, the mental aspect of strategy is obvious. What isn't obvious is the mental aspect of execution, both in sport like football and in sports like XC, Swimming, and Weightlifting. I can tell you (and I know a few other mentors on here have lifted competitively) that even something that should allow you to be as dumb as lifting a weight can be incredibly mentally draining, lose focus for an instant and there is no way to succeed.

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

I see no reason why an individual seasons game should not be considered a sport.

It is important to remember the differences between games and sports, in this case the lack of physical exertion is certainly one of them.

Originally Posted by torihoelscher

FRC is a sport because it uses your mind. Your mind is getting a workout, it doesn’t entirely have to be a physical type of activity. Its strategy, thats what makes it a sport because without strategy in baseball, football, golf, cross country, and etc there would be no way to win the game. I think its a sport because like other sports you cheer and get adrenaline running through you and we do compete. Heck, when I write software my hands shake with adrenaline.

Robotics is a sport no if, ands, or buts about it.

There are plenty of ifs ands and buts about it. Strategy is without a doubt important to sports but it is not what makes it a sport. Physical effort and/or exertion are by definition part of what makes something a sport.

Originally Posted by Duke461

Adrenaline Rushes are not exactly physical exertion.

But you've got to admit, it's fun!

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Duke461

I wrote a hefty essay above and no one's commented about it.
Thoughts? Questions? Comments? Remarks? Jokes? C'mon people

Originally Posted by usfirst.org

"The varsity Sport for the Mind," FRC combines the excitement of sport with the rigors of science and technology.

Originally Posted by FIRST promotional material

It is a sport where participants play with and learn from the pros

Originally Posted by FIRST promotional material

Teams are formed in the fall. The annual FIRST Robotics Competition Kickoff in early January starts the six-week “build” season. Competitions take place in March and April. The FIRST Robotics Competition Regional events are typically held in university arenas. They involve 40 to 70 teams cheered by thousands of fans over three days. A championship event caps the season. Referees oversee the competition. Judges evaluate teams and present awards for design, technology, sportsmanship, and commitment to FIRST. The Chairman’s Award is the highest honor at FIRST and recognizes a team that exemplifies the values of FIRST.

When the organization defines itself as a sport, that's all the definition we need.