What makes FRC a sport?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I am assuming you aren't serious but in case you were or other people thought you were something being on a Sports Network does not in its self qualify it as being a sport, nor does something not being on a sports network disqualify it.

But what it DOES mean is that someone thinks that it qualifies as a sport. Someone who makes the programming decisions for that network/channel. You're right, I fail to understand how poker is a sport... but someone higher-up on both the named networks thinks it counts as one for whatever reason. Poker's physical exertion? Well, how much work does it take to put cards on the table?

[mathking]

Sports by definition require physical exertion.

This really depends on the definition you use for sport. In looking at a total of 16 definitions from the 4 dictionaries in my office, 14 mention physical activity but only 3 mention exertion.

The thing is, what is a sport is NOT really well defined. Most of us take an "I know it when I see it" approach. It is in fact really difficult to write a definition of sport that includes everything that a lot of people assume are sports and excludes what a lot of people think are not sports. Is golf a sport? How about competitive shooting? Both require physical activity, but not really exertion. (This reminds me of a cartoon my dad had on his office wall for the better part of two decades: A pair of golfers, with the title "Existential Golf" and the tag line "It is a sport, therefor we are athletes.")

As for the sports bashing. Again folks, why? If you think that big time college and professional sports have a negative influence on our society, that's one thing. Bashing sports in general as useless is another. I will tell you that I coach robotics, cross-country and track & field now (and have coached a variety of other sports) and most of the benefits I see from one I see from the others: learning the value of hard work, seeing the benefits of hard work, learning how to work in a team, learning to take personal responsibility for your actions, understanding the importance of getting your work in the classroom done and done well. Perhaps the most important lesson is learning to seek intrinsic rather than extrinsic motivation.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I mean this as an honest question: have you ever been a student driver?

I thought that being a driver was physically demanding. It certainly got my heart rate up and exercised my circulatory system. Picking up and moving the robot over and over is quite an exercise, although arguably a side-effect of FRC and not directly part of the competition.

Yes, I have driven and coached.

Calling picking up ~1/2 of a 140lb robot and moving it <50ft maybe 50 times over the course of a couple of days is really pushing the definition of "quite an exercise" I think that you are really stretching here.

Originally Posted by EricH

But what it DOES mean is that someone thinks that it qualifies as a sport. Someone who makes the programming decisions for that network/channel. You're right, I fail to understand how poker is a sport... but someone higher-up on both the named networks thinks it counts as one for whatever reason. Poker's physical exertion? Well, how much work does it take to put cards on the table?

No, it means that some one thought that they could sell advertising by playing it on their network. There are no FCC guidelies stating that something on a sports network must be a sport. If the network's target demographic will watch it then the network will put it on.

Originally Posted by mathking

This really depends on the definition you use for sport. In looking at a total of 16 definitions from the 4 dictionaries in my office, 14 mention physical activity but only 3 mention exertion.

How many of these refer to what we are actually talking about? The english language is inherently complicated but I think we could knock out a bunch of those definitions pretty quickly.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

Yes, I have driven and coached.

Calling picking up ~1/2 of a 140lb robot and moving it <50ft maybe 50 times over the course of a couple of days is really pushing the definition of "quite an exercise" I think that you are really stretching here.

You're right, that is not a large amount of exercise. It was a bad expression to use.

It is, however, still physical exertion. It may not be a lot of exertion, but it is still expending energy.

[mathking]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

How many of these refer to what we are actually talking about? The english language is inherently complicated but I think we could knock out a bunch of those definitions pretty quickly.

I was actually only counting the definitions that pertained to what we are talking about. My point is not that robotics is a sport, or that it isn't. (I tend to come down on the "isn't" side, but don't think the distinction is that important.) My point is that it is very hard to come up with a definition of sport that includes and excludes everything one thinks should be included or excluded. I have actually used writing a definition of sport to include and exclude certain activities as an exercise in class when teaching about the difficulty you can run into when writing specifications.

To illustrate my point, take the number one Dictionary.com definition:
"an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc."
OK, if you extend "athletic activity" to include hunting and fishing, I think you can make a pretty good argument that operating a robot (and often being a human player) as is done in FRC competition fits the definition.

One of the natural tendencies at this point is to move more toward one of the OED definitions: "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment" and to argue that say fishing doesn't require much real physical exertion. But a lot of people in this camp argue that something like NASCAR is not a sport, but race car driving involves a lot of physical exertion, more than a lot of activities which seem safely in the "sport" camp.

I loved the discussion in my class last year on this topic. It really engaged my students' critical thinking and argumentation skills.

I think my biggest argument against FRC being a sport is that only a handful of members of the team actually do any of the physical things to operate the robot (or fling the game elements) in competition. On the other hand, I still consider the football players who only practice and never get in a game to be athletes. And at least one person in this thread doesn't believe that one of the sports I coach and played in both HS and college (cross country) is a sport.

[Thundrio]

I have been hearing a lot about the definition of a sport lately, and it's an interesting topic.

For anybody interested in going deeper into this topic, there are some very interesting discussions happening about this topic but applied to Starcraft 2 (thread is at http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...pic_id=288621), and I guess e-sports in general. For anybody who doesn't know, the real times strategy game Starcraft 2 is a growing e-sport (electronic sport) that has many professional players and tournaments with $50,000+ prize pools.

Personally I think in the most literal sense of the term FRC is not a sport, rather it is a competition (along with Starcraft). But it's an incredibly complicated topic that would take a while to cover thoroughly (I wish I hadn't already done my Senior research paper ~-~)