What makes FRC a sport?

[Alan Anderson]

Is NASCAR racing a sport? How about horse racing?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Is NASCAR racing a sport?

Didn't we resolve that in 2008?

[JamesCH95]

Whoever thinks that FRC is not physically demanding has not done it before. There are few times I sleep so soundly as I do after an FRC build season and regional.

I imagine these are the same people who don't think racing (cars) is a sport. I've had to be pulled out a car by my teammates because I was so exhausted at the end of an endurance stint.

I say this being a collegiate athlete in soccer, volleyball, and ultimate frisbee, as well as an FRC driver and race car driver, and alpine ski racing in HS. All of these are sports in their own right, all are physically demanding (especially if you take them seriously), all are mentally demanding, all are highly competitive. All require a focused strategy, focus, control, creativity, and a dash of luck.

These are all sports in my opinion, having competed in them at highly demanding levels.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Is NASCAR racing a sport? How about horse racing?

Without arguing the definition of "sport", have you ever tried jumping or flat racing a horse (certainly steeple-chasing)? I haven't done it in years, and I can't say I enjoyed it much, but I can tell you it requires some serious physical fitness. Not at my basketball or soccer levels, but there's honest physical exertion going on here. You feel it in the morning.

I have no experience with NASCAR racing, but from a physics standpoint I'd wonder if they don't need some solid aerobic conditioning.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Is NASCAR racing a sport? How about horse racing?

I don't know enough about NASCAR to make a judgment, horse racing is certainly a sport, high level jockeys are extremely well conditioned athletes.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

Whoever thinks that FRC is not physically demanding has not done it before. There are few times I sleep so soundly as I do after an FRC build season and regional.

There is a huge differense between something being tiring and some thing requiring "physical exertion" as the definition of sport states. I don't argue at all that build season and competitions where you down, however it is not because I am physically exerting my self.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

Is NASCAR racing a sport?

It requires significant physical fitness to maintain brain function, let alone lightning-fast reflexes, in sustained 3g turns for several hours at a time (not to say they drivers experience 3gs for the entirety of the race, just during the long turns). Add onto that a giant weight strapped to your head (helmet) and steering effort and you've got a very physically demanding activity.

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

There is a huge differense between something being tiring and some thing requiring "physical exertion" as the definition of sport states. I don't argue at all that build season and competitions where you down, however it is not because I am physically exerting my self.

I mean this as an honest question: have you ever been a student driver?

I thought that being a driver was physically demanding. It certainly got my heart rate up and exercised my circulatory system. Picking up and moving the robot over and over is quite an exercise, although arguably a side-effect of FRC and not directly part of the competition.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

I am assuming you aren't serious but in case you were or other people thought you were something being on a Sports Network does not in its self qualify it as being a sport, nor does something not being on a sports network disqualify it.

But what it DOES mean is that someone thinks that it qualifies as a sport. Someone who makes the programming decisions for that network/channel. You're right, I fail to understand how poker is a sport... but someone higher-up on both the named networks thinks it counts as one for whatever reason. Poker's physical exertion? Well, how much work does it take to put cards on the table?

[mathking]

Sports by definition require physical exertion.

This really depends on the definition you use for sport. In looking at a total of 16 definitions from the 4 dictionaries in my office, 14 mention physical activity but only 3 mention exertion.

The thing is, what is a sport is NOT really well defined. Most of us take an "I know it when I see it" approach. It is in fact really difficult to write a definition of sport that includes everything that a lot of people assume are sports and excludes what a lot of people think are not sports. Is golf a sport? How about competitive shooting? Both require physical activity, but not really exertion. (This reminds me of a cartoon my dad had on his office wall for the better part of two decades: A pair of golfers, with the title "Existential Golf" and the tag line "It is a sport, therefor we are athletes.")

As for the sports bashing. Again folks, why? If you think that big time college and professional sports have a negative influence on our society, that's one thing. Bashing sports in general as useless is another. I will tell you that I coach robotics, cross-country and track & field now (and have coached a variety of other sports) and most of the benefits I see from one I see from the others: learning the value of hard work, seeing the benefits of hard work, learning how to work in a team, learning to take personal responsibility for your actions, understanding the importance of getting your work in the classroom done and done well. Perhaps the most important lesson is learning to seek intrinsic rather than extrinsic motivation.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I mean this as an honest question: have you ever been a student driver?

I thought that being a driver was physically demanding. It certainly got my heart rate up and exercised my circulatory system. Picking up and moving the robot over and over is quite an exercise, although arguably a side-effect of FRC and not directly part of the competition.

Yes, I have driven and coached.

Calling picking up ~1/2 of a 140lb robot and moving it <50ft maybe 50 times over the course of a couple of days is really pushing the definition of "quite an exercise" I think that you are really stretching here.

Originally Posted by EricH

But what it DOES mean is that someone thinks that it qualifies as a sport. Someone who makes the programming decisions for that network/channel. You're right, I fail to understand how poker is a sport... but someone higher-up on both the named networks thinks it counts as one for whatever reason. Poker's physical exertion? Well, how much work does it take to put cards on the table?

No, it means that some one thought that they could sell advertising by playing it on their network. There are no FCC guidelies stating that something on a sports network must be a sport. If the network's target demographic will watch it then the network will put it on.

Originally Posted by mathking

This really depends on the definition you use for sport. In looking at a total of 16 definitions from the 4 dictionaries in my office, 14 mention physical activity but only 3 mention exertion.

How many of these refer to what we are actually talking about? The english language is inherently complicated but I think we could knock out a bunch of those definitions pretty quickly.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

Yes, I have driven and coached.

Calling picking up ~1/2 of a 140lb robot and moving it <50ft maybe 50 times over the course of a couple of days is really pushing the definition of "quite an exercise" I think that you are really stretching here.

You're right, that is not a large amount of exercise. It was a bad expression to use.

It is, however, still physical exertion. It may not be a lot of exertion, but it is still expending energy.

[Laaba 80]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

It is important to remember the differences between games and sports, in this case the lack of physical exertion is certainly one of them.

It is true that humans have no physical exertion during the game, but the robots are clearly physically exerting themselves. The robots are the athletes.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

It is true that humans have no physical exertion during the game, but the robots are clearly physically exerting themselves. The robots are the athletes.

Robots are not athletes. An athlete by definition is a person, our robots are equipment for playing a game, they are no closer to being athletes than a race car, a bike, or a pair of running shoes.

[JamesCH95]

Originally Posted by Laaba 80

It is true that humans have no physical exertion during the game, but the robots are clearly physically exerting themselves. The robots are the athletes.

I think that people are exerting energy during a match. Pushing a joystick or a button requires a force applied over a distance (energy) and therefore the driver is physically exerting energy. It may not be much, but it is greater than zero.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by JamesCH95

I think that people are exerting energy during a match. Pushing a joystick or a button requires a force applied over a distance (energy) and therefore the driver is physically exerting energy. It may not be much, but it is greater than zero.

That defines any game as a sport. Is there no distinction? I thought sport was a subset of game.