How will they top WILL I AM?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

In an application like this that requires cooperation between utilizing the FTC hardware and FRC I'd be ok. In a drag race where the optimal solution is to not use any FTC parts other than what is required I think minibots were pointless. They wanted us to work with FTC teams, which I am all for*, but they made a challenge that didn't play to the strengths of the FTC teams and didn't require anything other than their motors (which even FTC students bad mouth).


*I put my money where my mouth is and am mentoring an FTC team right now so I have a basis for comparison between systems. So far I have some things I'm impressed with and some things I'm less than impressed with.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

-Brando

I hope Dr. Joe's prediction doesn't come true.

We struggle to make our FRC robot 'Smart'....

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

In an application like this that requires cooperation between utilizing the FTC hardware and FRC I'd be ok. In a drag race where the optimal solution is to not use any FTC parts other than what is required I think minibots were pointless.

I think for teams who did the work and made effective minibots even without FTC parts, they weren't completely pointless. They certainly were not what FIRST intended them to be, nor did they accomplish what FIRST wanted them to, but it was still an engaging design challenge so I can't call it pointless.

I think the potential is there for the minis to come back as smart minis that will be better suited for the FTC/FRC mesh that FIRST is going for. Do I totally agree with that? Not really, but I still think the theory behind that type of integration is somewhat sound.

Originally Posted by thefro526

I hope Dr. Joe's prediction doesn't come true.

We struggle to make our FRC robot 'Smart'....

Continuous improvement man! Keep on pushing the envelope.

-Brando

[Ninja_Bait]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

It's still an annoying distraction. They're basically asking us to make two robots to be successful every year, when many teams still are barely making one robot, for whatever reason. It disadvantages many fledgling teams. Also, it detracts from the competition experience - small robots are hard to watch from the stands, and once there is a standout design (even if it has to be smart, it has to work really well), most teams have time between competitions to duplicate it, leading to the identical minibot issue.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

It doesn't mean they won't just reuse the models. Unless there's something particularly new about the robots this year, it would be unnecessary to update the models.

Yeah, new models for the water robots!
It wont be a live kickoff because the teams would smell the pool water...

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

...and once there is a standout design (even if it has to be smart, it has to work really well), most teams have time between competitions to duplicate it, leading to the identical minibot issue.

That's the main reason I do not want to see minibots again (there are others). I've seen robot designs simulated or even copied at times, but that's not the only factor that controls whether or not a robot succeeds. Robots also have drivers. "Smart" minibots, however, don't have drivers, and if a good "smart" minibot is created, many teams will end up doing the exact same thing, creating "smart" minibots that all work exactly the same, with no change in the way the minibot runs.

Also, like mentioned, minibots were tiny, and hard to see unless one was up close. Plus, there wasn't a real difference. They were deployed usually 1 of about 4 ways, and they all did the same thing the same way (go up the pole).

In previous year's endgames, things could always change.You could shoot a special game piece into an opponent's trailer (different ways each time), you could hang from different parts of the towers different ways. You could even block someone hanging without any ridiculous red cards.

So all in all, PLEASE have no minibots, and be a bit lighter on the penalties, especially the ones in defending!

[Hallry]

This thread has gotten off-topic...I don't believe bringing back minibots is going to 'top Will.I.Am' (well, that's debatable =P).

Anyway, if you wish to continue on the topic of minibots, a separate thread should be created.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Hallry

This thread has gotten off-topic...I don't believe bringing back minibots is going to 'top Will.I.Am' (well, that's debatable =P).

Anyway, if you wish to continue on the topic of minibots, a separate thread should be created.

No, we are discussing that giving us a good game would top Will.I.Am now we are discussing how to get that. I fail to see how this is "off topic".

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

No, we are discussing that giving us a good game would top Will.I.Am now we are discussing how to get that. I fail to see how this is "off topic".

Sorry, I had thought that pandamonium (creator of this thread) was aiming at getting answers of celebrities or political figures (actual people) who could one-up Will.I.Am, not what you guys were getting at. My mistake, my apologies

Anyway, as for the minibot argument, I would love to see them back again. Maybe have a water game for the minibots? They would have to be deployed and then swim across a tank of water, or dive to the bottom and bring some item up?

[Ninja_Bait]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Maybe have a water game for the minibots?

That would top will.i.am for sure! Even though it's a minibot.

[pandamonium]

haha Hallry you are totally right those were my intentions, so off topic lol but thats ok. I am just anxious for when they release a game hint and then in 24 hours there are 36 pages of off topics at least this is manageable.

[216Robochick288]

As so be on topic with the origional post....

I don't think any celebrity or political figures can top Wil. I. Am. I say this because Wil. I. Am. was excessive in the first place! It was already frosting on the cake that is FIRST that he was there. I think what really makes Kicloff special is knowing what is ahead, and realising what an exciting, productive, and mind expanding year you have waiting ahead of you.

And the caffine and lack of sleep certainly feeds that feeling the morning you wake up and realise you get to see :everyone at Kickoff again

As for minibots.... Can't say I would miss them all that much....

[ChuckDickerson]

So if they follow the pattern of last year going with the performer of that other halftime show I guess it will be Madonna this year!

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by DeepWater

So if they follow the pattern of last year going with the performer of that other halftime show I guess it will be Madonna this year!

Or maybe a good previous half-time performance, like the Who?

[emmywashere3849]

you don't want to see Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake?