Practice Time

[thisOrrthat]

Our team, 1730, is planing our season. We are working on how much time we want everything to take. Brainstorm, Design, Prototype, Build, Practice, and we are debating how much time a driver needs of practice to be successful before the robot is bagged. We have decided 100 hours would be enough time for the driver to get buttons and remote settings customized and learn everything about his or her robot. For a driver to make it to Einstein how many hours do they need under their belt before their first regional?

[tim-tim]

There is not a direct answer to this other than a driver can never have enough time to practice.

I know a lot of teams that build a second bot (practice bot) that is identical or very close to the actual competition bot and practice with the bot on an almost daily basis. To be a 'good' driver is knowing the controls and limitations of the robot instinctively. However, I challenge you and the drive team to become better than 'good' drivers. To reach 'Einstein' quality, requires much more than driving skills. Additional skills are needed, such as listening to drive team/coach, working with alliance/strategy set forth for the match, remaining calm and poised under pressure, the ability to learn from mistakes, and communication skills for what they feel is wrong with the robot or how to improve something.

It is similar to a good vs top tier quarterback.

Tim-tim, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[GCentola]

Practice time makes a huge difference, and I think Tim-Tim said it perfectly as it pertains to a competition. Making it to Einstein starts before kickoff. Having an effectively trained, motivated team that works together very well will bring a great start to the season. After kickoff, a well thought out strategy and a well-designed robot will improve you chances. You guys always produce quality robots, but it doesn't stop there. Making it to Einstein requires the effort to never stop improving. Once you have a great robot and strategy, practice will make you even better. In terms of driving, some teams aim to have their drive base done and operational by week 2. As far as actual practice time, i dont think there is a specific number...but more probably wont hurt. Best of luck this season!

Disclaimer: I haven't actually been to Einstein, so I'm only guessing that what I said is about right.

Originally Posted by GCentola

Practice time makes a huge difference, and I think Tim-Tim said it perfectly as it pertains to a competition. Making it to Einstein starts before kickoff. Having an effectively trained, motivated team that works together very well will bring a great start to the season. After kickoff, a well thought out strategy and a well-designed robot will improve you chances. You guys always produce quality robots, but it doesn't stop there. Making it to Einstein requires the effort to never stop improving. Once you have a great robot and strategy, practice will make you even better. In terms of driving, some teams aim to have their drive base done and operational by week 2. As far as actual practice time, i dont think there is a specific number...but more probably wont hurt. Best of luck this season!

Disclaimer: I haven't actually been to Einstein, so I'm only guessing that what I said is about right.

I understand how 2 weeks is a more viable option for top teams, but I've been researching bases like the kitbot on steroids and it seems to be something easily completed in a day or so. A simple electronics board can easily be mounted on from there, and you're set. If the game permits it, we should have our base done by Wednesday or Thursday, 4 or 5 days after. We plan to have the electronics for it being built at the same time, essentially having a drivable base by the end of the 1st week. I've read a lot about teams having whole bases and drives completed by the 2nd week, but with the method we're thinking of, it seems like a viable option to have it done in the 1st week. Is there anything I'm not getting here?

[Frenchie461]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

I understand how 2 weeks is a more viable option for top teams, but I've been researching bases like the kitbot on steroids and it seems to be something easily completed in a day or so. A simple electronics board can easily be mounted on from there, and you're set. If the game permits it, we should have our base done by Wednesday or Thursday, 4 or 5 days after. We plan to have the electronics for it being built at the same time, essentially having a drivable base by the end of the 1st week. I've read a lot about teams having whole bases and drives completed by the 2nd week, but with the method we're thinking of, it seems like a viable option to have it done in the 1st week. Is there anything I'm not getting here?

What you're missing is that the kitbot comes pre-designed and is ready to go together (with modifications if you so choose). Teams reaching for a week 2 drivebase are usually designing from scratch, so it takes them a little longer.

-Frenchie

[GCentola]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Is there anything I'm not getting here?

I think it depends on the drive system. The KoS could probably be done in one day, but if you have a custom chassis and all that jazz it takes longer, plus everything needs to be machined. Having it done by week 1 is a viable option for a kitbot or KoS, having it done by week 2 is also viable depending on the team. Some teams may take even longer, depending on complexity. How long does a swerve take to build? (just curious). I am in no way an expert on drive systems though, so I apologize for any confusion. The point of the post was geared more towards practice time and making it to Einstein.

[davepowers]

In my mind, you can never get enough driver practice. I drove last year, and I was very displeased with the amount of practice I was able to squeeze in. This year, we are striving to be much different, but we can never be so sure. Practice time is always give or take, every year it changes. Driver practice is so critical because you are able to figure out the flaws of your robot, and go beyond them. So I guess my answer to your question is they can never get enough. The, "good" drivers know they never have had enough driver practice. And driver practice shouldn't stop even after you get past your first regional.

-D

Will.I.Am can answer this question, since you "just can't get enough"! /lame joke/

[Garrett.d.w]

Originally Posted by GCentola

How long does a swerve take to build? (just curious).

With COTS parts we built it in a week. Perfecting the programming took a little longer. However, we never got much drive practice (our portable is very small).

If you want to go swerve, prototype in the off season so that people can learn how to drive it. Swerve is very different from anything else.

[GCentola]

Originally Posted by Garrett.d.w

If you want to go swerve, prototype in the off season so that people can learn how to drive it. Swerve is very different from anything else.

I know that much, I was jut asking for purposes of reference as to how long some drive systems take. I'm guessing that custom designed ones take even longer (if you haven't gotten it down to a science like some teams).

[pandamonium]

The term "practice" is somewhat vague. Some teams practice on full fields others on shop floors and hallways. The difference in how robots hadel on different surfaces is noticable. Also practicing alone or with other robots is another big difference. Our team hosts a pre-ship event where many local teams get together and practice on a field together. Some years there are only several working robots but it gives us a better idea on how robots will interact.

[BJC]

Let me throw some numbers at you.

As a rule it takes aproximatly 100 hours to master most motor skill driven activities. After these 100 hours the amount of improvement is very little. At the same time it takes between 30-60 minutes for one to even become accustomed to said motor skill.

Many teams are unable to practice before shipping. This means that by the time eliminations come around 9 matches x 2 min = 18 minutes of stick time. These drivers are not even going to be compendent on the sticks.

Having even a couple of hours of driving time in the last day of build season will put you leagues ahead of most other teams in terms of driving.

The powerhouse teams, however, build two robots and generally have a full field or close to it. These teams treat driving like a sport. In normal sports you wouldn't take a break from practice the week before the big game. These teams practice driving for several hours every day just like a sport.

Regards, Bryan

[howyadugan1730]

I love all the creative responses guys, but I was looking through the responses and I would love a specific number. Some possibilities are looking through previous years or teams could share their plans for this year.

[GCentola]

The point is, there is no specific number that is a ticket to Einstein. In 2011, we got about 6 hours of practice before our competition during the last few days of build. This allowed for debugging timethat didn't have to be done on Thursday so we were able to spend all day Thursday practicing. Some teams have more, many have much less. If you want a decent amount of time, make sure everything is done by the end of week 5 (at the latest). Staying on track is the tough part though (at least for us).