Pneumatic Tubing Specs

[Gdeaver]

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing? There is nylon and polyethylene tubing that have better pressure ratings but, larger ID's so they also would be illegal even though they are tougher.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing?

Maybe they know something we don't?

Actually, this is precisely the reason FIRST needs to specify tolerances in the rulebook.

Does FIRST actually care about this difference, and how are the teams and inspectors supposed to know? The Q&A, with its delayed responses, blackout period and low readership is insufficient compared to the dead-simple alternative of "Ø0.160 ± 0.015 in" "MAX Ø0.175 in". (Note that Freelin-Wade specifies Ø0.160 ± 0.005 in for the ID of the polyurethane tubing in the kit, and Ø0.170 ± 0.004 in for their low-density polyethylene tubing. If FIRST didn't care which one teams used, they would want to specify a large enough tolerance to cover them both—hence ±+ 0.015 in.)

Edit: Wait—why am I giving a ± tolerance? I should have recommended MAX Ø0.175 in. FIRST can't possibly care enough to intend to prevent a team from competing with undersized tubing. (That has happened; an unfortunate consequence of enforcing the rules.)

[Phalanx]

As others have said, the 2011 rules may or may not apply to the 2012 rules.

However, based on my experience over the last 7 years, pneumatic tubing has been pretty much the same. 0.16 ID, 0.25 OD, 125PSI.

From Mcmaster-Carr, these part numbers would be the ones to use:
Opaque Black 9149T21
Opaque Blue 9149T24
Opaque Green 9149T22
Opaque White 9149T23

[kellymc]

They are also giving a discount this year, contact them through their website and they will send you the code and also tell you the tubing specs that they supply in the past kit of parts.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing? There is nylon and polyethylene tubing that have better pressure ratings but, larger ID's so they also would be illegal even though they are tougher.

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Maybe they know something we don't?

No, AndyMark does not "know something we don't". While they provide a lot of FIRST-legal stuff, and are FIRST's partner for FIRST Choice, not everything on their site has to be FIRST-legal. AndyMark is a business just like any other place you'd buy stuff to put on your robot.

All that said, please note that the Pneumatic Tubing available on FIRST Choice does not have specs on AndyMark's website (and even the picture of the black tubing is different from that previously posted). The link to the product website specifies 14 different specs, one of which includes the 1.6" ID tubing we've had in the past.

So... Everyone should just wait 4 more days before purchasing any pneumatic tubing for the season

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

No, AndyMark does not "know something we don't". While they provide a lot of FIRST-legal stuff, and are FIRST's partner for FIRST Choice, not everything on their site has to be FIRST-legal. AndyMark is a business just like any other place you'd buy stuff to put on your robot.

All that said, please note that the Pneumatic Tubing available on FIRST Choice does not have specs on AndyMark's website (and even the picture of the black tubing is different from that previously posted). The link to the product website specifies 14 different specs, one of which includes the 1.6" ID tubing we've had in the past.

So... Everyone should just wait 4 more days before purchasing any pneumatic tubing for the season

AndyMark frequently knows some things we don't. That's a non-rebuttable statement, given that they handle FIRST Choice and have regularly supplied KOP items (including custom ones for which advance knowledge would be unavoidable).

It wouldn't be a stretch to wonder if they might have accidentally suggested something about the 2012 KOP specs by offering non-KOP, but compatible tubing themselves. Another possibility is, as you mentioned, that they offer it independently of their FIRST offerings. (If it's not FRC-legal, the lack of a disclaimer to that effect will be less than ideal after the 2012 kickoff, given that FRC is their principal market.) In this case, you're correct that they list what appears to be the conventional Freelin-Wade KOP tubing under the FIRST Choice 2012 catalogue. (And of course none of this can easily be confirmed or dismissed until the manual is released. I'm prepared to wait.)

[JesseK]

Since the AM tubing is on FIRST Choice, I would presume that the GDC at least intends for it to be legal irrespective of a 0.01" diameter difference. The difference could simply be Freelin-Wade rounding a decimal versus AM using calipers and rounding the other way ... or vice-versa.

[JimWright949]

I've given the Pneumatics workshop in Washington State for the last two years. Here is what I tell all the people who attend my workshops. Never buy pneumatics tubing or brass fittings. Every FRC team gets a lifetime supply of this every year. Find a Vet team in your area and they would give you some for free.

-Jim
PS That is if the 2012 tube is the same as the 2011-2002

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by JimWright949

I've given the Pneumatics workshop in Washington State for the last two years. Here is what I tell all the people who attend my workshops. Never buy pneumatics tubing or brass fittings. Every FRC team gets a lifetime supply of this every year. Find a Vet team in your area and they would give you some for free.

-Jim
PS That is if the 2012 tube is the same as the 2011-2002

While true, matings (barbs, press to fit connectors, stc) between the tubing and brass fittings have been non existant in the KoP for the last few years.



.

[JimWright949]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

While true, matings (barbs, press to fit connectors, stc) between the tubing and brass fittings have been non existant in the KoP for the last few years.

.

Oh wow, you are right. I was not paying attention to the kit of parts due to the amount of pneumatics supplies my team has. I now see the need to buy the quick connect fittings. As well as rewrite some of my slides.

Thank you,
-Jim