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Unread 07-01-2012, 15:48
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait View Post
The animation has 6 balls, two on each bridge.
Animation is not always a legitimate source.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 15:56
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthMentor View Post
I do not see anywhere in the rules that says there are, or are not any balls already in the human station either. So there could be more.
Good point.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 16:03
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthMentor View Post
I do not see anywhere in the rules that says there are, or are not any balls already in the human station either. So there could be more.
It would take a rule change for there to be more. There is no provision anywhere else in the rules that I have seen for allocating more balls. 18 total, that's all she wrote.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 17:18
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Re: Number of Balls

Ok, the official rules need to be quoted here. There's too much confusion with bridges and alliance bridges and the animation. Please, read the manual.

I believe there are only two rules that relate.

Quote:
[G01]
When placed on the Court, each Robot must be in compliance with all Robot rules, may not exceed 60 in. tall, and have all appendages within its Frame Perimeter. The Robot must be in contact with its Key, and may contain up to two Basketballs.
Quote:
[G05]
Each Bridge will be preset with two Basketballs. Basketballs allotted to Robots that are not used, will be preset on the Coopertition Bridge.
2 balls x 6 robots
plus
2 balls x 3 Bridges
=18 total

Extras not used by the robots will simply be added to the middle Coopertition Bridge instead.

This total excludes any that the human players might have. I believe there are no rules on that, so therefore the only balls available at the beginning are the ones mentioned by the above two rules. So, human players don't get any balls at the beginning.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 17:49
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Re: Number of Balls

I'm guess this will be cleared up straight away in a Q&A/Update.

But doesn't the rule mean that it's possible that the Coopertition Bridge will have 14 balls on it? I feel sorry for the refs .

Also, on the topic of ball setting, is there a rule on what counts as being 'used by the robots' (ie, can it be like last year and have the balls lying next to/touching the bumper so other robots can pick them up?
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Unread 07-01-2012, 17:57
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnishi2011 View Post
I'm guess this will be cleared up straight away in a Q&A/Update.

But doesn't the rule mean that it's possible that the Coopertition Bridge will have 14 balls on it? I feel sorry for the refs .
Note to self: Program an 18 ball autonomous mode.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 18:38
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnishi2011 View Post
... what counts as being 'used by the robots' (ie, can it be like last year and have the balls lying next to/touching the bumper so other robots can pick them up?
Rule [G01] that was quoted says the robots must "contain" up to 2 balls. Something to be clarified by the GDC, but I would say on the floor touching the bumper isn't "contained".
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Unread 07-01-2012, 18:53
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Re: Number of Balls

Assuming there are 18 balls total:

Suppose an alliance decided to claim possession of as many balls as possible to prevent the other team from scoring.
Per the rules, each Inbounder may hold up to 2 balls. Also, each robot may hold up to 3 balls. No extra balls may be left in the Corral.

2 * 3 Inbounders + 3 * 3 Robots = 15 balls taken out of play from other team.
So, only 3 balls are now in play for the opposing team.

Makes for a pretty low scoring match.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 19:10
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 View Post
Assuming there are 18 balls total:

Suppose an alliance decided to claim possession of as many balls as possible to prevent the other team from scoring.
Per the rules, each Inbounder may hold up to 2 balls. Also, each robot may hold up to 3 balls. No extra balls may be left in the Corral.

2 * 3 Inbounders + 3 * 3 Robots = 15 balls taken out of play from other team.
So, only 3 balls are now in play for the opposing team.

Makes for a pretty low scoring match.
That's like suggesting that last year, people might not put any tubes into play. You'd have to be pretty confident in your end game bonus abilities. Plus, ranking is based partially on score, a team using that strategy, would rank below a team that won just as many matches, but played the intended way.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 19:17
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomatosoup View Post
That's like suggesting that last year, people might not put any tubes into play. You'd have to be pretty confident in your end game bonus abilities. Plus, ranking is based partially on score, a team using that strategy, would rank below a team that won just as many matches, but played the intended way.
Ranking this year is based off of :
1st order sort
Qualification Score (W-L-T)
2nd order sort
Cumulative sum of Hybrid Hoop points
3rd order sort
Cumulative sum of Bridge points
4th order sort
Cumulative sum of Teleop Hoop points
5th order sort
Random sorting by the FMS
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Unread 07-01-2012, 20:17
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Theta View Post
Ranking this year is based off of :
1st order sort
Qualification Score (W-L-T)

2nd order sort
Cumulative sum of Hybrid Hoop points
3rd order sort
Cumulative sum of Bridge points
4th order sort
Cumulative sum of Teleop Hoop points
5th order sort
Random sorting by the FMS
The 1st order sort is more than just (W-L-T). It also adds the Coopertition points awarded to teams that have robots on their alliance on the center/neutral bridge at the end of the match.

In the past a win earned 2 points, a tie 1 point and a lose resulted in 0 points received. In addition to these points, 2 points are awarded to each alliance if the robots from each alliance are balanced on the center bridge and 1 point if two robots are on the bridge, but not balanced.

So effectively, you can win and earn 2, 3, or even 4 points. Similarly you can lose and earn 0, 1, or even 2 points.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 20:53
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
Animation is not always a legitimate source.
Just pointing it out, I have my own reservations on the matter.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 21:24
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim-tim View Post
The 1st order sort is more than just (W-L-T). It also adds the Coopertition points awarded to teams that have robots on their alliance on the center/neutral bridge at the end of the match.

In the past a win earned 2 points, a tie 1 point and a lose resulted in 0 points received. In addition to these points, 2 points are awarded to each alliance if the robots from each alliance are balanced on the center bridge and 1 point if two robots are on the bridge, but not balanced.

So effectively, you can win and earn 2, 3, or even 4 points. Similarly you can lose and earn 0, 1, or even 2 points.
Your score during the match, however, is only a 4th tie-breaker, which doesn't matter much.
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Unread 07-01-2012, 21:40
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Re: Number of Balls

Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 View Post
Assuming there are 18 balls total:

Suppose an alliance decided to claim possession of as many balls as possible to prevent the other team from scoring.
Per the rules, each Inbounder may hold up to 2 balls. Also, each robot may hold up to 3 balls. No extra balls may be left in the Corral.

2 * 3 Inbounders + 3 * 3 Robots = 15 balls taken out of play from other team.
So, only 3 balls are now in play for the opposing team.

Makes for a pretty low scoring match.
If the 3 inbounders each have 2 balls then as soon as another ball is scored they will be in violation of <G31>, even if an inbounder throws one into the field, another inbounder cannot 'immediately remove' a ball from the corral since he'll have 2 in his possession.


Quote:
[G31] Only Inbounders may contact Basketballs; each Inbounder may hold a maximum of two Basketballs. During Teleop, Inbounders must remove Basketballs from the Corral immediately upon arrival. All Basketballs in the Alliance Station must be held by Inbounders once removed from the Corral.
Violation: Foul
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Unread 07-01-2012, 23:23
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Re: Number of Balls

We definitely need an operational definition of "immediately" here.
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