Is a bias showing?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

We can't have a functioning society without either. I too have felt slighted over the years (I'm a business major but I'm good at strategy, analyzing, marketing, scouting, design, etc but I'm not an engineer) by how it can seem all about engineering math and science but I feel that what FIRST teaches can be applied to any field you are in. It did feel like a disconnect but FIRST can't control what everyone says. Even in the room at kickoff the applause for Colbert was much louder than that for the head of NASA.

Just because Dean doesn't like celebrities or sports doesn't mean everyone else is FIRST feels the same way.

[alfredtwo]

A lot of the people I work with (at a technology company) are talking about steAm where the A stands for art. Art is important and it is losing ground in a lot of schools along with engineering. Few things get dissed in schools as much as computer science does though - in my biased opinion.

I think that larger concern though is people going into easy majors for which there is a shortage of jobs while ignoring the harder STEM courses for which there are jobs but a shortage of people to take them. It's a real problem.

[dsmoker]

I love the concept of STEAM, and definately noticed the bias. Maybe I'm oversensitive, as a NEMO mentor who was in high school and still is a self-proclaimed musical theater geek (and proud of it!) But my daughter, in her first year on our FIRST team (although she's been dragged around to competitions, build sessions, community events, etc. since she was 5) is both a devoted FIRSTer whose favorite subjectes in school are math and science, she is also a professional actress, having just finished touring in Disney's Mary Poppins. I think she's a great example of how the arts and science can and should co-exist. Both are equally important in a civilized society. Plus, studies have shown that students participating in music programs do better in math and science.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

Just because Dean doesn't like celebrities or sports doesn't mean everyone else is FIRST feels the same way.

I never said that.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I never said that.

I know. Just making a point that even people in FIRST still get starstruck like everybody else. No matter how much we talk about changing the culture we're all still enamored with it. I think Dean finally realized it and brought in celebrities to help because he realized much as it pained him he needed the help to get the message out faster.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I know. Just making a point that even people in FIRST still get starstruck like everybody else. No matter how much we talk about changing the culture we're all still enamored with it. I think Dean finally realized it and brought in celebrities to help because he realized much as it pained him he needed the help to get the message out faster.

I agree its been a long day, I couldn't tell where you stood for a second there.

[Alexa Stott]

I tweeted about this earlier and was told I was wrong. It's bothered me for a long time. I really don't like how much he hates everything from athletes to the arts. It seems very pompous, especially considering most pro athletes have completed more college coursework than Dean Kamen himself who dropped out. Pau Gasol went to medical school and James Franco has 3 masters degrees and is in two phd programs. They're not stupid people. They are also incredibly talented and there is no problem, in my opinion, with kids looking up to them.

It's important for FIRST to present students with the idea that STEM is good and fun and whatnot, but I think the message they send is "We are smarter and better than you so we are more valuable to society in the long run."

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

I tweeted about this earlier and was told I was wrong. It's bothered me for a long time. I really don't like how much he hates everything from athletes to the arts. It seems very pompous, especially considering most pro athletes have completed more college coursework than Dean Kamen himself who dropped out. Pau Gasol went to medical school and James Franco has 3 masters degrees and is in two phd programs. They're not stupid people. They are also incredibly talented and there is no problem, in my opinion, with kids looking up to them.

It's important for FIRST to present students with the idea that STEM is good and fun and whatnot, but I think the message they send is "We are smarter and better than you so we are more valuable to society in the long run."

The problem is we're presented with so many images and stories of dysfunctional, selfish and ill mannered athletes and celebrities that they make easy targets for Dean to bash on. Obviously they are not all like that.

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The problem is we're presented with so many images and stories of dysfunctional, selfish and ill mannered athletes and celebrities that they make easy targets for Dean to bash on. Obviously they are not all like that.

Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean Dean needs to poop all over them every year.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean Dean needs to poop all over them every year.

As I said earlier: It's Dean being Dean

[JaneYoung]

I'm really chuckling here. I'm thinking of a discussion in a NEMO meeting when I spent a few minutes talking to new mentors about the importance of recruiting from art, music, English, theater tech, drama, and business classes in the teams' schools. My ending comment in that discussion was something like, "It only makes sense, doesn't it?" I'm chuckling at the raised eyebrows that suggestion brought about, initially.

We have a bridge this year. To succeed in utilizing its potential, the teams literally have to find a balance. That's part of the game challenge, true, but it is also true in managing a team of quality and excellence. Many teams know that, instinctively, while others have to learn to appreciate diverse talents and skills and then utilize them productively. People are not so different from teams or game challenges, really.

Jane

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I'm really chuckling here. I'm thinking of a discussion in a NEMO meeting when I spent a few minutes talking to new mentors about the importance of recruiting from art, music, theater, theater tech, drama, and business classes in the teams' schools. My ending comment in that discussion was something like, "It only makes sense, doesn't it?" I'm chuckling at the raised eyebrows that suggestion brought about, initially.

We have a bridge this year. To succeed in utilizing its potential, the teams literally have to find a balance. That's part of the game challenge, true, but it is also true in managing a team of quality and excellence. Many teams know that, instinctively, while others have to learn to appreciate diverse talents and skills and then utilize them productively. People are not so different from teams or game challenges, really.

Jane

I think most people in FIRST get it, but it doesn't seem like the big shots do.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

I think most people in FIRST get it, but it doesn't seem like the big shots do.

Teams work very very hard. They are on the ground, figuring it out. Teams deal with challenges, difficulties, and constraints on a regular basis - sometimes year after year. Their focus and intent is to grow a team well and to help their students develop their potential, find their dream, and go for it. The teams often have a very deep passion about inspiration and work hard to have their efforts recognized.

The FIRST leaders have different passions, viewpoints, concerns. Sometimes, there is a disconnect. That's ok - if it is bad enough, they'll figure it out. Growing pains are called growing pains for a reason. And... nobody is perfect. But... don't let anyone rain on your parade.

Jane

[Hobson]

I've heard the last few speeches by Dean too. I think this one was taken a bit out of context.

What I got was that science and technology are moving fast, as in changing quickly, while art changes more slowly. This may or may not be true, but I didn't get the feel that this was meant as a comparison of worth.

I agree that the average sports icon or singer is reasonably likely not going to be an outstanding role model as I'm sure most of us could easily see. The fact that kids idolize people who's life is about sex and drug use over people who really make positive changes in the world.

[Katie_UPS]

Dean's just really passionate. People get a little blinded by their passions.