Is a bias showing?

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

The problem is we're presented with so many images and stories of dysfunctional, selfish and ill mannered athletes and celebrities that they make easy targets for Dean to bash on. Obviously they are not all like that.

Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean Dean needs to poop all over them every year.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

Just because they're easy targets doesn't mean Dean needs to poop all over them every year.

As I said earlier: It's Dean being Dean

[JaneYoung]

I'm really chuckling here. I'm thinking of a discussion in a NEMO meeting when I spent a few minutes talking to new mentors about the importance of recruiting from art, music, English, theater tech, drama, and business classes in the teams' schools. My ending comment in that discussion was something like, "It only makes sense, doesn't it?" I'm chuckling at the raised eyebrows that suggestion brought about, initially.

We have a bridge this year. To succeed in utilizing its potential, the teams literally have to find a balance. That's part of the game challenge, true, but it is also true in managing a team of quality and excellence. Many teams know that, instinctively, while others have to learn to appreciate diverse talents and skills and then utilize them productively. People are not so different from teams or game challenges, really.

Jane

[Alexa Stott]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I'm really chuckling here. I'm thinking of a discussion in a NEMO meeting when I spent a few minutes talking to new mentors about the importance of recruiting from art, music, theater, theater tech, drama, and business classes in the teams' schools. My ending comment in that discussion was something like, "It only makes sense, doesn't it?" I'm chuckling at the raised eyebrows that suggestion brought about, initially.

We have a bridge this year. To succeed in utilizing its potential, the teams literally have to find a balance. That's part of the game challenge, true, but it is also true in managing a team of quality and excellence. Many teams know that, instinctively, while others have to learn to appreciate diverse talents and skills and then utilize them productively. People are not so different from teams or game challenges, really.

Jane

I think most people in FIRST get it, but it doesn't seem like the big shots do.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

I think most people in FIRST get it, but it doesn't seem like the big shots do.

Teams work very very hard. They are on the ground, figuring it out. Teams deal with challenges, difficulties, and constraints on a regular basis - sometimes year after year. Their focus and intent is to grow a team well and to help their students develop their potential, find their dream, and go for it. The teams often have a very deep passion about inspiration and work hard to have their efforts recognized.

The FIRST leaders have different passions, viewpoints, concerns. Sometimes, there is a disconnect. That's ok - if it is bad enough, they'll figure it out. Growing pains are called growing pains for a reason. And... nobody is perfect. But... don't let anyone rain on your parade.

Jane

[Hobson]

I've heard the last few speeches by Dean too. I think this one was taken a bit out of context.

What I got was that science and technology are moving fast, as in changing quickly, while art changes more slowly. This may or may not be true, but I didn't get the feel that this was meant as a comparison of worth.

I agree that the average sports icon or singer is reasonably likely not going to be an outstanding role model as I'm sure most of us could easily see. The fact that kids idolize people who's life is about sex and drug use over people who really make positive changes in the world.

[Katie_UPS]

Dean's just really passionate. People get a little blinded by their passions.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Alexa Stott

I tweeted about this earlier and was told I was wrong. It's bothered me for a long time. I really don't like how much he hates everything from athletes to the arts. It seems very pompous, especially considering most pro athletes have completed more college coursework than Dean Kamen himself who dropped out. Pau Gasol went to medical school and James Franco has 3 masters degrees and is in two phd programs. They're not stupid people. They are also incredibly talented and there is no problem, in my opinion, with kids looking up to them.

It's important for FIRST to present students with the idea that STEM is good and fun and whatnot, but I think the message they send is "We are smarter and better than you so we are more valuable to society in the long run."

I think Alexa is spot on here.

I feel like Dean has a huge disconnect with how the many many people (students and mentors) have differing views on sports, entertainment, and STEM mixing into a very cool culture and world. I for one hate the pompous things Dean says sometimes, even if they are unintentional. He needs to be conscious of what he says.

Originally Posted by Hobson

The fact that kids idolize people who's life is about sex and drug use over people who really make positive changes in the world.

I like the part where so many claim this as fact. This is not a fact. When you think of entertainment legends, do you realize the amount of philanthropy these people take part in using their successes? Just because the philanthropy may involve music education and education in the arts, people in STEM are quickly blinded.

[Tom I]

Personally I find there to be biases in everything advertising. FIRST is obviously trying to push STEM fields of study, so they're gonna talk up the hype. And that's great! I think we need it a lot more in the world. Now if it seemed to be boreder-line "bashing" other fields of study, one could see that, but I'm sure that wasn't their intention. They just want to push the techie majors!

Although I do like the idea of STEAM!

256 is now pro-STEAM! We have people in the arts involved in robotics, and they love it! They were a little offended from what Dean said, but from what they learned from FIRST, they've all decided to prove him wrong by integrating what they've learned from robotics to improve their specified fields, while promoting science and technology.

Nobody on 256 is mad at Dean, it was more like "Challenge Accepted".

[Jessica Boucher]

I think there's a huge point that was missed here: this was Dean's Westwind speech, taped. His Westwind talks are always a little more edgy than that which he gives at competition - he even throws in an old lawyer joke or two. Is that what I would have chosen as THE Dean speech to show at Kickoff? Probably not. Would I have thought of that beforehand? Probably not.

In the end, as the first fully televised kickoff...I give them a pass.

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Nobody on 256 is mad at Dean, it was more like "Challenge Accepted".

Good on you for handling it that way! Keep us posted on how it goes.

[JesseK]

My whole attitude towards the kickoff speech is "eh, he still doesn't understand the nation's true problem". If Dean would ever speak and truly listen to teachers who aren't in FIRST, he'd have a different perspective I think.

Sport & the arts aren't our nation's problem. Our nation's problem is parenting complacency: parents seem to expect schools to teach their kids work ethic. I state this not from a FIRST perspective, but from a perspective of a guy who has had 7 roomates in the past who are (or were for a few years) elementary or middle school teachers. Parents need to teach (constantly, all the time) their kids that the only way for 99% of people to get what they want in this nation is to work hard at whatever they want to do. It's been that way for 100's of years.

Even so, FIRST is still the best organization that can take kids with existing interest/motivation and turn them into better problem solvers.

[Sandvich]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

We can't have a functioning society without either.

Actually, we kind of can.

There's already plenty of art, movies, etc out there that's already been made. If people want to make more art, then good for them, they should do whatever they like to do most. But even if art was suddenly not taught in schools, people could still find creative outlets. I hate art classes and such, but I still like drawing and stuff sometimes. Yet improving technology does more good for the rest of the world, and it absolutely needs strong organization and funding if kids are going to learn it. Are there private art schools? Yes. Private music lessons? Yes. Are there private technology schools? No. If technology isn't taught in schools then many students won't be able to learn it anywhere else.

So if we didn't put government funding into art, we would still be a functioning society. If technology education stopped, however, we'd be in DEEP trouble come 15 or 20 years.

There's art programs in public schools, and that's fine, but STEM should always get equal or better emphasis. I don't care if there's kids who don't know how to play a musical instrument or play a sport, but I do care if we have a generation of people who don't know how to use a multimeter, or don't know the difference between a Philips and a flathead screwdriver, or would believe you if you said that dihydrogen monoxide was a dangerous chemical that should be banned. That's what Dean Kamen's working towards, and few things are more noble.

[mrnoble]

Our team has only ever won four trophies: one for innovation, and three for artistic merit, basically. We have as much value placed on students who contribute to costume design and "theme-ing" as we do our programmers and mechanicals. Not that we don't love and appreciate our young engineers; of course we do, this is FIRST. But there are so many kids who stand hesitantly outside the room and think they don't have any thing to contribute because they "aren't good at math", and we want them to join and feel that it is their robot, too. It's gratifying to read that there are many more teams out there who appreciate the contributions of students interested in the arts.

[mrnoble]

Quote: "Are there private technology schools? No."
Actually, there are, and public ones too. My own kids attend the Denver School of Science and Technology. It happens to be a couple blocks away from the Denver School of the Arts, and they are the #1 and #2 schools in the city in test scores, graduation rate, and kids ready for college.