Deciding which bridge to go for

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

How would that be a guaranteed 2 points for getting on your own bridge? You could still lose the match. Plus, you could win the match AND get the coopertition bonus; that's 4 points.

Well, the bonus you get for just having 2 of your robots on your bridge is 20 points, which is a HUGE point bonus. Depending on how many balls your opponents have scored, (20 points is anywhere from 7 to 20 goals...) it can almost be a guaranteed win.

Granted, getting your 3rd robot to go for the coopertition bonus isn't a bad idea.

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

Well, the bonus you get for just having 2 of your robots on your bridge is 20 points, which is a HUGE point bonus. Depending on how many balls your opponents have scored, (20 points is anywhere from 7 to 20 goals...) it can almost be a guaranteed win.

Granted, getting your 3rd robot to go for the coopertition bonus isn't a bad idea.

But if a robot on your alliance and a robot on the opposing alliance can both go up on the bridges, then choosing to go for the coopertition bonus instead of independently scoring would mean 10 poinrs less for each alliance. This means it would be a wash in terms of point, net point differential change of 0. But both alliances stand to gain in doing this by taking the coopertition bonus.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

But if a robot on your alliance and a robot on the opposing alliance can both go up on the bridges, then choosing to go for the coopertition bonus instead of independently scoring would mean 10 poinrs less for each alliance. This means it would be a wash in terms of point, net point differential change of 0. But both alliances stand to gain in doing this by taking the coopertition bonus.

1 Robot on your bridge = 10 Points
2 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points
3 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points (For Qual. matches)

Having 2 go up is best, then get your 3rd one to go for the coopertition.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

1 Robot on your bridge = 10 Points
2 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points
3 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points (For Qual. matches)

Having 2 go up is best, then get your 3rd one to go for the coopertition.

Completely true, but definitely go for 3 on your alliance bridge during Eliminations.

In Elims:
1 Robot on your bridge = 10 Points
2 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points
3 Robots on your bridge = 40 Points

So 3 robots on your alliance's bridge would equal TWICE as much as 2 during Elimination matches, where Qualifying points from the Coopertition bridge would no longer matter.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Completely true, but definitely go for 3 on your alliance bridge during Eliminations.

In Elims:
1 Robot on your bridge = 10 Points
2 Robots on your bridge = 20 Points
3 Robots on your bridge = 40 Points

So 3 robots on your alliance's bridge would equal TWICE as much as 2 during Elimination matches, where Qualifying points from the Coopertition bridge would no longer matter.

Yup. Of course on the other hand, trying to get all 3 on your bridge might be risky. Would hate to see one of them push the other 2 off or something...

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

Having 2 go up is best, then get your 3rd one to go for the coopertition.

I disagree.

Case 1. Your suggestion:

Other alliance: 2 robots on their bridge. 20 points.
Our alliance: 2 robots on our bridge. 20 points.
No coopertition bonus.


Case 2. My suggestion:

Other alliance: 1 robot on their bridge, one on coopertition bridge. 10 points.
Our allaince: 1 robot on our bridge, one on coopertition bridge. 10 points.
2 Coopertition bonus points.

Either way it wouldn't affect the match outcome (win/loss), but ALL teams involved benefit from a coopertition bonus. This result is repeatable and consistent in all scenarios. Since the end all be all for ranking is the qualification score, Case 2 always comes out on top by this numerical analysis.

[nighterfighter]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

I disagree.

Case 1. Your suggestion:

Other alliance: 2 robots on their bridge. 20 points.
Our alliance: 2 robots on our bridge. 20 points.
No coopertition bonus.


Case 2. My suggestion:

Other alliance: 1 robot on their bridge, one on coopertition bridge. 10 points.
Our allaince: 1 robot on our bridge, one on coopertition bridge. 10 points.
2 Coopertition bonus points.

Either way it wouldn't affect the match outcome (win/loss), but ALL teams involved benefit from a coopertition bonus. This result is repeatable and consistent in all scenarios. Since the end all be all for ranking is the qualification score, Case 2 always comes out on top by this numerical analysis.

I think we have a misunderstanding...

In your scenario #2 there are 3 robots not on a bridge.

I am saying that you have 2 of your 3 alliance robots go for YOUR bridge to get 20 points. Then make your 3rd one go for the coopertition.

[Bill_B]

What percentage of robots will have the ability to climb on a bridge? As noted elsewhere, the bridges will not stay tilted for access by themselves. This means if you intend to get onto a bridge, your robot has to be designed for it. It will take good choreography to depend on an alliance partner already on a bridge to allow other alliance robots to join them there.

[Djur]

Getting onto a bridge is relatively easy if you have a frame with an angled bottom, much like tanks have. Then your robot can just drive at the bridge and it'll be pushed down as you go over it.

@Bill_B: Say the Red alliance gets to the coopertition bridge first. They get on, then drive to the other side to allow the Blue robot on. Red then backs up to balance the bridge while Blue is relatively motionless.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Djur

Getting onto a bridge is relatively easy if you have a frame with an angled bottom, much like tanks have. Then your robot can just drive at the bridge and it'll be pushed down as you go over it.

I'm not certain, but I don't think that you can just drive at the bridge. When there is no external force on the bridge, the bridge remains parallel to the ground, meaning that you have to have some way of pushing it down, or cooperatively have an alliance member who can lift it up, as seen in the game animation.

[Donut]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

I'm not certain, but I don't think that you can just drive at the bridge. When there is no external force on the bridge, the bridge remains parallel to the ground, meaning that you have to have some way of pushing it down, or cooperatively have an alliance member who can lift it up, as seen in the game animation.

Spot on here. The bridge is roughly 1 foot high while level (note that that is above the bumper zone!) and returns to level anytime nothing is on it. If you watch the videos put out on the FIRST youtube channel they give a test as to where to place weight at a specific distance to get it to tip. Based on this you can calculate with some torque equations roughly how much force you need to tip the bridge down in front of your robot.

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Donut

Spot on here. The bridge is roughly 1 foot high while level (note that that is above the bumper zone!) and returns to level anytime nothing is on it. If you watch the videos put out on the FIRST youtube channel they give a test as to where to place weight at a specific distance to get it to tip. Based on this you can calculate with some torque equations roughly how much force you need to tip the bridge down in front of your robot.

I'm not sure at exactly what point on the bridge, but calculations done by some of our team indicated it required a little under 6.5 lbs of force to tilt it.

[Steven Donow]

I'm starting to think that with the Coopertition bridge, maybe we should try and organize/create a standardized system of some sorts to communicate across the field on whether or not to go for the Coopertition bridge...it could probably wait until after Stop Build Day(pains me to say that and not ship day ), but just something to keep in mind

[ToddF]

Originally Posted by stevend1994

I'm starting to think that with the Coopertition bridge, maybe we should try and organize/create a standardized system of some sorts to communicate across the field on whether or not to go for the Coopertition bridge.

I was thinking along these same lines, maybe something using a piece of tri-colored LED strip light. These could be wrapped around a post to be visible in all directions. The strip could be:
off: no meaning
blinking red: heading for red ramp
blinking green: heading for coopertition ramp
blinking blue: heading for blue ramp

Sometime during the match, the drivers would trigger the appropriate light to signal their intentions. The team colored lights are more for the benefit of intrateam communication. If there are green blinking lights on opposite sides of the field, both alliances will know they are going for a coopertition score, and which robots will be trying it.

When two robots approach a ramp, the first one drives up on, and drives forward to tip the ramp to the second robot, then cuts power to the wheels so it can be pushed. The second robot pushes the first robot up the ramp until it becomes balanced. This bit of "ramp etiquette" establishes which robot controls the balancing, so the two robots on the ramp don't end up fighting each other.

Thoughts?

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by ToddF

I was thinking along these same lines, maybe something using a piece of tri-colored LED strip light. These could be wrapped around a post to be visible in all directions. The strip could be:
off: no meaning
blinking red: heading for red ramp
blinking green: heading for coopertition ramp
blinking blue: heading for blue ramp

Sometime during the match, the drivers would trigger the appropriate light to signal their intentions. The team colored lights are more for the benefit of intrateam communication. If there are green blinking lights on opposite sides of the field, both alliances will know they are going for a coopertition score, and which robots will be trying it.

When two robots approach a ramp, the first one drives up on, and drives forward to tip the ramp to the second robot, then cuts power to the wheels so it can be pushed. The second robot pushes the first robot up the ramp until it becomes balanced. This bit of "ramp etiquette" establishes which robot controls the balancing, so the two robots on the ramp don't end up fighting each other.

Thoughts?

I was thinking more of something along the lines of a hand signal, haha, might be hard to get the attention of the other alliance. Or, conversely, it could be something as simple as, "Have your robot go back and forth twice in front of the Coopertition Bridge". Something simple for teams to do, even if there robot is as simple as just kitframe on wheels and bumpers.